How to practice stride technique?

[wildman]

I'm planning to, someday, play stride pieces, but I find them rather difficult...maybe I haven't touched on it much, or maybe I'm not on that level yet.not on that level yet.

It's easy if slowed down, but gets very difficult once fast. Since most technique I do now is based on classical I'm quite slow on other genres. I mean I judge myself (and others judge me) to be satisfactory and dexterous in runs and arpeggios and all, but have a hard time doing leaps. Anyone here give suggestions on how to improve accuracy (which is the main thing of this device) of my hands in large leaps and hitting the chord with ease and clarity?

Thank you.

[iratior]

I too would like to know the answer to this question.  There's probably some arm and wrist movements that can be used to improve accuracy and endurance.  I've been experimenting with rotating the elbows (clockwise, for the left, counter-clockwise for the right) in such a way as to play the low note when the left elbow is to the left and the chord when it is to the right.  But that seemed only to improve endurance and not accuracy.  Having this experience is why I can have the opinion that not even Chopin 10/4 is so hard as Chopin 25/4.

[49410enrique]

it looks like it sounds, hand stays close to the keys and 'slides' or 'strides' along and ontop of the keyboard. i think knowing in your head the 'target' low notes (that are common to 'stride') and then drilling the crap out of the arm positions.

it looks like the best way to get good at this is to practice just that, pieces with this type of writting. look at rags, maybe even some of the classical concert waltzes. and above all don't play any faster than you level allow for accuracy.  i'd try some metronome work, i.e goal tempos, set a goal, work up to it, then push it a little , then a little more, etc.

probably like many things in piano some people will just be wired up better for this type of stuff just like some folks have an easier time developing certain techniques, there are people out there that can basically show up on game day with little practice and be way better than others who struggle and practice their hearts out.  it's not fair, but that's the way things are some times.

i like this kind of music, i have found some similarities and references to gottschalk laying some of the ground work to what would eventually lead to rag jazz and such, his works might be worth exploring on your end.

if i were in your shoes that's how i'd approach. i don't claim to be the be all and end all on this but i genuinely tried to weigh in with sincerity and hope it helps some

[ted]

There appear to be two schools of thought about this. Some players advocate keeping the left hand quite close to the keys and using a lateral arm movement while others claim benefits exist in using large, bouncing arcs. I used to play a lot of this music but have recently grown weary of it.

My suggestion is that you observe YouTube videos of many really good stride players. Stephanie Trick and Adam Swanson are among the best contemporary ones. Sadly there are very few films of Waller, but we can discern, from what little there is, that his action was very light and fluid - contrary to the popular image of a big man belting the keys. Jim Hession has posted a wonderful series of lessons on YouTube concerning stride technique. To my mind, his approach is rather heavy handed, but that might be my personal bias. In any case he is certainly worth paying attention to.

I think it is best that you think out for yourself those techniques which suit you, rather than accept rules from anybody. It is clear that very many completely satisfactory movements exist, just as they do in classical. In the end, what matters is that it sounds good and does not strain or tire you. As with continuously repeated movements in classical, it is vital to avoid stiffness and tension over relatively long passages.

Although it is true that many good stride players have had very large hands, Stephanie Trick has small hands and I find her "Handful of Keys" more exciting than Waller's own version.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ET3n09AfY68

[jayeckz]

Since most technique I do now is based on classical I'm quite slow on other genres.

You mean classical as in the classical period (Mozart, Haydn, etc.) rather than classical music in general right?

I mean I judge myself (and others judge me) to be satisfactory and dexterous in runs and arpeggios and all, but have a hard time doing leaps. Anyone here give suggestions on how to improve accuracy (which is the main thing of this device) of my hands in large leaps and hitting the chord with ease and clarity?

I'm unfamiliar with stride, but I've looked through Fats Wall's Handful of Keys .  The technique required by the left hand is found in several Liszt works including the 2nd Hungarian Rhapsody.

When I was first learning the Hungarian Rhapsody, the left hand jumps (same as the left hand technique needed in stride) killed my pinky and fourth fingers because I lacked strength and endurance in them.  If you can play runs and arpeggios well, you've probably developed your finger strength and most importantly a relaxed wrist.  Playing the left hand leaps will probably only entail learning how to move properly.

Post a small clip of yourself playing a few arpeggios, a scale, and an attempt to do the jumps.  This is the best way to get an appropriate suggestion for improvement.

[49410enrique]

here's a fun little 3 page (about 1-2 minutes perf time) transcription of a fun tune from the super mario universe. there are other fan transcripts out there but i like this one for it's conciseness and it's well written for the hands. it'd prolly make a good little practice piece as there's a bit of jumping around in the base /LH part.

not copyrighted this is put out for free by the arranger.


he really does some great work with his charity, support him if you can.

[wildman]

Thanks for the help people. I think the conclusion is so far that I have to find out what works best for me, and check out some youtube videos on the matter.

I'm unfamiliar with stride, but I've looked through Fats Wall's Handful of Keys .  The technique required by the left hand is found in several Liszt works including the 2nd Hungarian Rhapsody.

When I was first learning the Hungarian Rhapsody, the left hand jumps (same as the left hand technique needed in stride) killed my pinky and fourth fingers because I lacked strength and endurance in them.  If you can play runs and arpeggios well, you've probably developed your finger strength and most importantly a relaxed wrist.  Playing the left hand leaps will probably only entail learning how to move properly.

Post a small clip of yourself playing a few arpeggios, a scale, and an attempt to do the jumps.  This is the best way to get an appropriate suggestion for improvement.

I'm familiar with the 2nd Hungarian Rhapsody, I guess you're talking about his most famous one? Yes, the stride there is particularly fast, although aren't there only two notes in the chord to the right? Handful of Keys offers a more challenging one, with four notes a right and even a tenth on the left! And that's not even close to Tatum's Tiger Rag, which concerns 180+ bpm jumps between a tenth on the left and four notes on the right, something that literally frightened me.

And sorry, I won't be able to post that video. Too lazy lol.  

Finally now that you mentioned them, I think I'll e-mail Dick Hyman too, thankfully as I hear it, many people have done that have received great advice from this master. Also I'll watch Jim Hession, I think he's one of the most active Youtubers there about stride technique.

Any more comments will be greatly appreciated.

[jayeckz]

Yes, the stride there is particularly fast, although aren't there only two notes in the chord to the right? Handful of Keys offers a more challenging one, with four notes a right and even a tenth on the left!

Your response was referring to this quote:

The technique required by the left hand is found in several Liszt works including the 2nd Hungarian Rhapsody.

right?

When I wrote technique, I specifically meant the movement required to play similar configurations.  I did not mean technique in general, so my mistake.


Anyway, since you've brought this topic of difficulty up, I'll entertain you.

Have you played both the Handful and the HR?  You actually made me play through the music.  If you're just talking about hitting the notes in tempo without regards to the sounds you're making; Handful is far more difficult hands down. 

Technique, however, involves taking the notes in musical context.  You must consider the dynamics, phrasing, voicing, etc in difficulty.  Keeping the musical context in mind, I find the movement in Handful from a 10th to a 3 or 4 note chord far more comfortable than moving in the HR from a single note to a two note chord.  Another reason why the stride in the HR is more difficult is the dynamic range.  There is I think two measures in the HR that calls for literally banging single base notes with the pinky.  I will get more strain from playing that one few second long HR section once than playing Handful for an hour.

[wildman]

[

]Have you played both the Handful and the HR?

Nah. 'S far as I'm concerned I'm amateur level, although I can say I know more about piano technique than I can play them.

Technique, however, involves taking the notes in musical context.  You must consider the dynamics, phrasing, voicing, etc in difficulty.

Aware of that, I am.

Keeping the musical context in mind, I find the movement in Handful from a 10th to a 3 or 4 note chord far more comfortable than moving in the HR from a single note to a two note chord.

Why? Because HK doesn't require any dynamics or phrasing, unlike HR?

Another reason why the stride in the HR is more difficult is the dynamic range.  There is I think two measures in the HR that calls for literally banging single base notes with the pinky.

Wut. I thought HK also required you to press base notes? Well, how do you mean by "banging", as in, make it extremely loud? (I have received a sudden vision of me flattening my pinky and hitting those base notes sideways, in an effort to strike it like a hammer. Does this work?)

TY for your patience.

[jayeckz]

Why? Because HK doesn't require any dynamics or phrasing, unlike HR?

My comment, "I find the movement in Handful from a 10th to a 3 or 4 note chord far more comfortable than moving in the HR from a single note to a two note chord.", applies even without considering the phrasing, dynamics, etc.  I'm talking about purely hitting the notes in tempo here.  There's just a feeling of stability in the left hand when I played through the HK.  In the HR, I don't always feel this stability.

Play through both in tempo and you'll see what I mean.  Or perhaps, you may find the opposite to be true; everyone is different!

Also, the HK definitely does require dynamics, phrasing, and most importantly voicing for an effective performance.  It's just that when I consider the dynamics, phrasing, and voicing for the HR, it becomes so much harder.  

Wut. I thought HK also required you to press base notes? Well, how do you mean by "banging", as in, make it extremely loud?

If you played the bass notes in HK like the two measures I'm talking about in the HR, the HK would sound terrible.  I mean, sure you may be able to make it work, but I don't see this kind of sound being appropriate.

(I have received a sudden vision of me flattening my pinky and hitting those base notes sideways, in an effort to strike it like a hammer. Does this work?)

Kinda like a karate chop?  Some pianists actually do that when they want to produce a really loud sound on one note.

Doing this for either won't work for the HK or HR because of the tempo.

[49410enrique]

mathew's pretty good, and seems genuinely interested in helping folks. 
watch his instructions here for the deet's on setting up online lessons with him via skype
https://www.boogiewoogiekid.com/online_instruction.htm

getting personalized help is prob the best way to approach this, whether longer term regular lessons or even periodical consults, wouldn't hurt to get some advice from him on what you want to do and if he can help

[49410enrique]

one of the better ones i've come across . more fun free stuff to practice on. give the video about two minutes to really get going. blew my mind....

[zezhyrule]

"Sight-read"?  Wow that's crazy

[49410enrique]

"Sight-read"?  Wow that's crazy

exactly mind officially blown!

[nystul]

"Sight-read"?  Wow that's crazy

The great thing is he can sightread a rag like that and then start adding his own variations and embellishments as he goes.

[iratior]

One thing I have noticed is that, when I have been giving my left hand a real workout with runs, the stride bases go better.  I am working on an original compostition entitled "Hamper Racing in Missouri", which will feature a base of prestissimo sixteenth notes;  this should be good practice for the stride bases;  I don't know why, but it has just worked.  On the other hand, Missouri qua Missouri -- divorced from fantasy -- has much from which to be alienated, such its having gone for McCain in the last election, albeit by a narrow majority.  And has anybody seen a road map of Missouri?  They have the craziest way of naming their highways.  Apparently, it used to be that Missouri was an exception to the rule that life insurance could be written in such a way as not to provide any benefit in suicide cases.  Imagine that kept actuaries busy estimating the probabilities of committing suicide in Missouri, as if the risk of tornados wasn't bad enough.  I doubt if anybody took the dismal political opinions prevalent there into account.  Rush Limbaugh is from Missouri, by the way.

[gspiel1232]

Another good piece to practice your stride technique would be (one I'm working on now) the Romeo and Juliet Ballet by Prokofiev.  If you can get Mercutio and M&C up to speed (especially Mercutio), that will definitely help.

Cheers

[p2u_]

Another good piece to practice your stride technique would be (one I'm working on now) the Romeo and Juliet Ballet by Prokofiev.  If you can get Mercutio and M&C up to speed (especially Mercutio), that will definitely help.

Any piece with so-called "jumps" is OK. It's not the piece, it's the principle that should be practised. I would dig a tunnel from two sides:
1) Very slow practice with very quick preparation (be there well in advance before you press the key)
2) Very slow practice, practising the Neuhaus principle: The shortest line between two points is a curve.
P.S.: As a matter of fact, such problems are often the result of a weak awareness of the topography of the keyboard. Slow practice of full chords in all inversions with both hands in all keys works miracles.

Paul