Piano and "sports"

[rachmaninoff_forever]

Sport
1.  An athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature
2.  A physical activity that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often engaged in              competitively

Athlete
1.  A person who is proficient in sports and other forms of physical exercise

Okay, so at lunch today, I got in an argument with this arrogant guy, and he said that the more athletic the sport, the better it is, or something like that, but I disagreed with him.  According to his definition of a sport, it requires athleticism.  Then he used the argument argumentum ad hominem fallacy and accused me for being whimpy.  His justification for that at the time was that all I eat at the lunch table is candy .  Then I was like, "what the heck are you talking about?!  I did track, I play basketball, and I skateboard!".  But he said that I wasn't an athlete because I don't work out in the weight room, and all I do is eat candy, despite the fact that I do participate in sports.  Then he used the faulty generalization fallacy and said that I played the piano, so therefore, I'm a whimp.  This made me VERY mad, so I raged a whole speech about how physically and mentally demanding it is, and how much harder it is to play the piano than it is to kick a ball around on a field (he plays soccer).  Not that I have anything against soccer, I was just trying to explain to him that piano is just as demanding if not more demanding than what most people consider as "sports".

SO...  What do you have to say on this topic?  Should piano, and other instruments be considered as sports?  It fits all of the criteria above.  What is athleticism?  What's a sport?

I am not saying that piano is a sport by the way.

[j_menz]

Should piano, and other instruments be considered as sports?

Solo Piano is a sub-category of wrestling. Piano Duets are a form of duelling, often to the death (of the music, sadly, rather than the duellists). 

[49410enrique]

i keep a foot in each world. though we can argue, with very good logic and supporting evidence that pianists are 'finger athletes', in terms of the fine motor skills 'athleticism' and skill , discipline, natural talent, drive, etc. it requires, i wont ....

but i also have my head in the more 'traditional' athletics realm, tell the dude to quit being a dousche bag, he doesn't know what he's talking about.  you can play piano and not be a whimp.  i can deadlift more than twice my body weight, have a solid hand stand, can perform a respectible amount of 'muscle ups' and I can oly lift a decent amont of weight on clean and jerk and snatch relative to my body weight.  i can sprint at the track, and still have enough left in the tank to 'play around' then come home and work on my repertorie. the dude doesn't know what he's talking about, piano to lack of athleticism has no causal or correllative relationships (they don't mix too well but that's a diffeent story....)

[essynia]

One can literally argue anything to be a "sport" via strict definition.

Seriously. Give me an activity, active or passive, and I can "define" it as such.

Just because piano requires mental and physical prowess does not mean it will be in London for the 2012 Summer games. Heck, dance still isn't considered a "sport," despite the fact that it is one of the single most competitive activities physically, mentally, and emotionally I have ever engaged and competed in.

I have played a few sports in my time, on pre-Olympic and professional levels. I would not argue that piano requires less time or dedication, or even that the musical world is less competitve by any means; however, I would note that the purpose/end goal/ aim/whathaveyou of the arts and that of traditional "athletics" couldn't be any more different.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

Just because piano requires mental and physical prowess does not mean it will be in London for the 2012 Summer games. Heck, dance still isn't considered a "sport," despite the fact that it is one of the single most competitive activities physically, mentally, and emotionally I have ever engaged and competed in.

Lol that was the reason why he said that Dance and playing music aren't sports.

[essynia]

Lol cause of the Olympics?

I guess sports have a particular objective that is clearly defined and measurable by a rigid point system... Even the more expressive and abstract "sports" like Dressage and synchronized swimming have definitive patterns that can be graded without a lot of subjectivity...? They aren't AS open-ended as piano?

Idk, haha. I rode Dressage for a number of years, and I can personally vouch for the fact that it requires the same mode of thought and discipline that both piano and ballet do.... Swimming.... Not so much, lol. Maybe it's a classical arts thing? And some of those arts are categorized as "sports" as well because they have less room for interpretation because they all require the same results interpretation-wise to rack up points? Idk??

Lol I am currently being attacked by a puppy, so I have no idea if that was coherent.... Forgive any errors in judgment/rationale, haha. Just thoughts. Back to mom duties......

[pts1]

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[rachmaninoff_forever]

Oh, man... does this bring back memories!

When I was a kid, I was in a boy choir AND played piano at a pretty advanced level.

I was called a fag, homo, freak, pussy, etc., etc., etc. EVENTHOUGH I was on the soccer team
(played center forward), and was among the top track runners in the school. Also I was a pretty good swimmer and was in the top group in that.

Yeah what the heck?!  I can run a five minute mile I was on an AAU basketball team, and I skateboard, but I'm considered a whimp for playing the piano what?!

[werq34ac]

You shouldn't have gotten angry. Just saying.. If you were being baited, then he's the last one laughing regardless of where he lands in life.

Anyway, I actually don't think piano constitutes as a sport. In sports, generally points are to be earned through pure technical skill and ability. Basketball players have one goal: to get that ball through the hoop more times than the opponent does. Football players, get that ball to the other side of the field. Soccer, Get the ball in the goal. Baseball, you score runs. etc. etc. all stemming down to athletic ability. All it takes to be a kicker for a football team is to kick the ball really well. Piano doesn't have a specific goal in mind. Competitions aren't even the basis for piano. It's an art and sports aren't necessarily art. You don't play sports to entertain the audience or yourself. You play to win. Playing piano to win gets you no where even in competition.

But I think your arrogant jock friend is an idiot. If everything in the olympics is a sport, then curling is a sport. And how do we judge what's the best sport? Probably the best measure is popularity. If we go by that, then most likely Soccer is the most popular sport in the world. On the other hand, the most "athletic" sports are probably weight lifting (contests of pure strength) and track (contests of pure speed). People don't pay hundred's of dollars to see track meets or weight lifting contests.

Again, you should have kept your cool. Attempting to defend piano as a sport.. most of the public doesn't agree with you and while it's okay to have beliefs, it's probably better not to share them if people don't agree with you.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

You shouldn't have gotten angry. Just saying.. If you were being baited, then he's the last one laughing regardless of where he lands in life.

Anyway, I actually don't think piano constitutes as a sport. In sports, generally points are to be earned through pure technical skill and ability. Basketball players have one goal: to get that ball through the hoop more times than the opponent does. Football players, get that ball to the other side of the field. Soccer, Get the ball in the goal. Baseball, you score runs. etc. etc. all stemming down to athletic ability. All it takes to be a kicker for a football team is to kick the ball really well. Piano doesn't have a specific goal in mind. Competitions aren't even the basis for piano. It's an art and sports aren't necessarily art. You don't play sports to entertain the audience or yourself. You play to win. Playing piano to win gets you no where even in competition.


Again, you should have kept your cool. Attempting to defend piano as a sport.. most of the public doesn't agree with you and while it's okay to have beliefs, it's probably better not to share them if people don't agree with you.

But what about skydiving, skateboarding, cave diving, BMX, and other extreme sports?  Not all sports have goals, or are competitive. 

Did I say that I thought piano was a sport?  If I did, I didn't mean it, because I don't think it's a sport, but it's in like the same caliber as sports when it comes to demands.

[outin]

I certainly hope playing piano is not a sport, because there are few things I dislike more than sports

But playing is surely physically demanding, which I am painfully aware of these days. My current state of not working out for so many years is getting back at me all the time with pains and stiffness in the back, neck and shoulders. To be able to execute what my teacher (and myself) expects, I simply had to start working out a little bit...sigh...

[j_menz]

all I eat at the lunch table is candy .  

Seriously mate, improve your diet! 

[thalbergmad]

Anyone who teased me at school for playing the piano was challenged to an arm wrestle.

When they came back from hospital, they had a lot more respect.

Thal

[costicina]

IMO, defining piano playing a sport is a nonsense. And the same is true for ballet, in spite of its preponderantly  physical  channel of communication.

Anyway, Thal’s argument, as always, is unbeatable, and highly recommended when this sort of silly discussions  arise 

[p2u_]

SO...  What do you have to say on this topic?  Should piano, and other instruments be considered as sports?  

There are certainly elements of sports present; something like the training of a ballerina if you ask me. Some go even further:

A pianist ought to be able to do the following gymnastic exercise: place his ten fingers on the floor and raise his body vertically. This is the full load which the fingers should be able to bear (these pillars, columns, arches, supporting a dome

P.S.: The unhealthy culture of piano competitions has indeed made something like sports of our art. I find that disgusting, really. It's even worse: if you don't want to participate in this race of madness, then you're history.

Paul

[nystul]

The meaning of sport has changed over time.  If you think about hunting, horseback riding, etc. these were things that were done for fun.  You go to a sporting goods store and you see things like camping supplies or hiking gear.  Sport does not necessarily imply athletic competition, but it can.

But the real story here is you just need to learn to ignore people who say stupid things and be comfortable with who you are and not let it turn into a some pointless argument.  Besides soccer is wussy sport for people who fall down and cry when someone takes their ball away.

[thalbergmad]

The meaning of sport has changed over time.  

Indeed that is true. In jolly old England, chasing a cheese down a hill was once considered a sport. Now it is considered madness.

Thal

[starlady]

In jolly old England, chasing a cheese down a hill was once considered a sport.

Thal

Hmm.......excuse me?