Project Melody Writing

[starstruck5]

Is anyone interested in starting a focus group on writing melody -this could be pop or classical. I am especially interested in understanding what makes a melody memorable. I have researched this extensively and have some ideas -Melody is surprisingly complex for something so simple. Why can't all composers write hit songs for example? Why were Schuberts melodies often so breathtaking? -Where do ideas come from?

I have also studied the Schillinger System and so am not afraid of applying numbers to spark ideas -so if you would like to learn some of these techniques post a response.

Please say what musical genre(s) you are interested in writing for.

[candlelightpiano]

This sounds like an interesting project.  I have no experience melody writing so I don't know if I could keep up if I joined this thread but I'd follow keenly.  And I would like to learn the Schillinger system, too.  Genres ...how about jingles?  Is that a genre?

[ajspiano]

Yes -

Since my composition thread has been long buried..

I'm really not fussed on genre..

..one of my more recent facebook posts -

"AJ is ever so patiently waiting for an independently produced hip hop track that doesn't use 4/8/16/32 bar structures exclusively, has poly-rhythms, general rhythmic variation in the lyrical content, and both harmonic and melodic variations in the backing... and possibly written in a time sig like 5/4 or 7/8."

...I had just listened to one and I predicted pretty much everything several bars in advance, save the exact lyrics. Dull... My point being, that melody writing skills effect all genres.

[quantum]

Sounds interesting.  I would not like to be limited to specific genres though. 

[starstruck5]

EDIT -DELETED -

Maybe this is not the best site to start this project!

[sueyin]

I guess I'm too late!  You're not going to do this project, then? I was interested because I'm in a slump and haven't played piano for 3 months!  Can you believe that?  I don't know what to do to get back to piano so I thought melody writing may be a good idea?  Something to get me interested again.

[starstruck5]

I guess I'm too late!  You're not going to do this project, then? I was interested because I'm in a slump and haven't played piano for 3 months!  Can you believe that?  I don't know what to do to get back to piano so I thought melody writing may be a good idea?  Something to get me interested again.

What kind of melodies are you interested in writing? 

[ted]

I wish I could contribute to this thread but I fear melody is beyond my understanding. It is a complete mystery, an ineffable and magical thing which seems to defy all systems. A complete tyro can set the world singing with something born of poking about for a while with a couple of fingers on an instrument. Can we hope to systematically increase our likelihood of producing strong, moving melody ? I'm not too sure about that either. Those composers who have produced many powerful melodies don't talk about it, and probably don't know themselves how it happens. "It just came to me", is usually all that is said.

Put it this way, on a pragmatic and personal level, I could say with absolute certainty that I could play for half an hour and create reasonably good piano music. No way could I be certain a melody within it will be in any way memorable. Sometimes they even spring into the mind at odd times and places. One of mine I consider very strong burst on me while I was standing at a city intersection waiting to cross the road on my way to work. Just poof ! There it was.

I think we can say that a strong melody is firstly simple and secondly speaks directly to the heart and not to the mind. It is easy to see formal properties, symmetry, certain harmonies, balance of phrasing and all the rest of it in retrospect. But it is also easy to write thousands of melodies which have all these intellectual properties and say absolutely nothing.

[sueyin]

What kind of melodies are you interested in writing? 

Something very simple but something you will remember, like some of the Beatles songs.  Love Me Do, Yellow Submarine.  Or some melodies they use in ads.  They're short, catchy and memorable.  What is this Schillinger system? Is it easy?

[starstruck5]

I wish I could contribute to this thread but I fear melody is beyond my understanding. It is a complete mystery, an ineffable and magical thing which seems to defy all systems. A complete tyro can set the world singing with something born of poking about for a while with a couple of fingers on an instrument. Can we hope to systematically increase our likelihood of producing strong, moving melody ? I'm not too sure about that either. Those composers who have produced many powerful melodies don't talk about it, and probably don't know themselves how it happens. "It just came to me", is usually all that is said.

Put it this way, on a pragmatic and personal level, I could say with absolute certainty that I could play for half an hour and create reasonably good piano music. No way could I be certain a melody within it will be in any way memorable. Sometimes they even spring into the mind at odd times and places. One of mine I consider very strong burst on me while I was standing at a city intersection waiting to cross the road on my way to work. Just poof ! There it was.

I think we can say that a strong melody is firstly simple and secondly speaks directly to the heart and not to the mind. It is easy to see formal properties, symmetry, certain harmonies, balance of phrasing and all the rest of it in retrospect. But it is also easy to write thousands of melodies which have all these intellectual properties and say absolutely nothing.

Very interesting post -My father always used to say that only geniuses can consistently write great melodies. For the rest of us it is a bit like winning the lottery.

I wanted to prove ths wrong.  I think that it is true that there is mathematical beauty present in all the best loved tunes. Can you discover wehat they are? To a point you can.

Can anyone discover and understand what these musical relationships and ratios are? Is there a scientific way of writing world class melodies which move people? I would say no there isn't. 

However, you can certainly increase your melody writing skills. There are techniques which can open pathways. You can begin with numbers which have a delicious consistency -and then you let your imagination play with the relationships – George Gershwin wrote 'The Man I love' and a few other hits after studying the Schillinger system. You can't say that Gershwin didn't have an innate ability -but he acknowledged that the techniques he learned from Schillinger contributed enormously to his success. Obviously another person might study these same techniques and get nowhere -so I suppose we are back to  intuition vs intellectual control.

No one likes to think a melody could be constructed in a scientific way -because this is at odds with how we think of music as an emotional and spiritual art form.  I have come to see that great composers combine the two -

You can certainly doodle and plunk and wail into a recorder for hours -and something good may come and something may not -I think this is also true of using numbers applied to scales or rhythm -so it is ultimately down to the type of person you are.  I am not saying that anyone should write a melody like a cold machine though -it is like a living thing and you have to respond to it on an emotional level -I believe there is beauty in numbers -I will post something soon and give an idea what numbers can inspire.

[starstruck5]

Something very simple but something you will remember, like some of the Beatles songs.  Love Me Do, Yellow Submarine.  Or some melodies they use in ads.  They're short, catchy and memorable.  What is this Schillinger system? Is it easy?

The Schillinger System is not for everyone -there are aspects which are simple, but the deeper you go it can be very very complex. I suppose I could begin some tutorials on it -maybe make a few videos -but I am still not sure this the right site to do that.

I will send you an article I wrote for another site on pop hooks if you want -not much Schillinger here I have to say -but the general principles of writing hooky melodies are there. The rest then is up to you!

[keyofc]

I'm interested!

[pianoplayjl]

So am I. I often find that while I am writing melodies I am limited by the rules of music which sucks. So often I would try to analyse great melodies in popular music, to no avail. Writing and setting  a rhythm to a piece of music is much easier to me.

JL