i would look to approach smaller venues first, like small city orchestras, i.e you're much more likely to get it played by the say abiline orchestra vs. a first shot out of the gate with dudamel and the LA kids at disney hall.
another option is to approach perhaps community orchestras where the musicians are usually amateur community folks who volunteer their time to play in ensembles vs paid kids.
also look for composition competitions, see if you can eneter, a high placing even if you don't win top prize won't hurt.you could also do something like the youtube orchestra perhaps find musicinas around the world to take a part, record it and put it together or live stream it.
utilize social networking for some ground roots movement.
you could also look to raise funds by crowd sourcing ala kick starter or something like that too!
though I think they may be a bit too conventional to take such a chance.
Do you have any solo piano works composed, or some chamber work? It's going to be pretty difficult to interest an orchestra straight out of the box - the cost structure is against you. For solo or chamber works, though, your options are much greater and the support you could offer for a performance would go a heck of a lot further (and you would then have some quality recordings to put out there).
I'd be very surprised if you manage to find an orchestra willing to play that. That is too far into the strictly romantic idiom, as opposed to even neoromantic, to interest performers. Particularly with such a large work, and a concerto on top of that, as opposed to solo music. The only time something like that gets played is if it's composed by a musician who already has a contract with a label, i.e. a known pianist-composer, or violinist-composer, for example. You will almost certainly have to simply commission a recording. Getting it performed live, IMO, is not feasible unless you develop a reputation. To do so, you will have to start off with solo and chamber works, or write in a more contemporary style. The only other realistic avenue by which a piece like that would get performed is if you happen to be a professor in a music department. Then you might be able to get a movement or two played. But I'm assuming that's not the situation.
I don't know anything about the politics of symphony orchestras, so this is a complete shot in the dark. But why only approach American ones? There may well be orchestras in other countries that would be interested. Consider the current economic situation in much of Europe: a Greek orchestra may well be willing to play an orchestral version of Justin Bieber songs for $50 000, and far more willing to play actual real music. In Eastern Europe, there may well be small, struggling orchestras willing to take a chance on new work. You could perhaps even take a chance on the JPO here in South Africa:https://www.jpo.co.za/though I think they may be a bit too conventional to take such a chance.Due to a cap on my data I could not give your digital realizations a listen. From other comments I get the impression they are somewhat tinny MIDI versions? That is no longer the only option available. Nowadays excellent digital instrumentation is available; it will never be quite as good as the real thing, but one can create high quality digital music, that is pleasant to listen to and can give the listener a good idea of what the music will sound like on acoustic instruments. It will probably entail a very steep learning curve if you want to do it yourself; alternatively, look out for people who can do it. I am sure at many colleges they have faculties where electronic music is taught; a struggling music student may be able to help for a fee.
This is precisely what I was going to mention. I have quite a bit of experience with the performance of newly composed pieces of music, and even though your audience may well appreciate that you have composed in an idiom that is easily recognizable and understandable to them, this is, in my experience, not what many orchestra directors want performed. Look at the new works that many higher profile orchestras perform. They are done by composers that compose more in an idiom that reflects more of what academia (or whatever you want to call it) these days is composing. You will rarely, if ever, see a new work composed in a 19th century idiom, such as the ones you have presented here. This also applies to many composition competitions. The works that win these competitions aren't necessarily 100% original or cutting edge, but they also aren't in an 'antiquated' idiom. Please do not take this as as personal attack on your music, for I think that people should compose however they want to, and I respect the work that goes into it. However, I think that works in these older idioms should be reserved for mediums that do not require the hiring of large amounts of musicians, which is the case for orchestral hirings. Write a solo piano piece or a small chamber work for you and a few friends. I have no doubt that you could find an audience for your music, and I also have no doubt that you could find willing performers for a small chamber work. Asking an orchestra to perform an orchestral work, however, is a very difficult negotation for works such as these, I am sorry to say.
Hi. Congratulations! On your patience and talent. I found a really intriguing site online called Ravel Virtual Studios. They do what it may be you need. They take what you have there and further refine it so that is sounds like a real orchestra playing. When I listened to the demos I was quite impressed. I'm sure that you'll have a much better chance of being heard (and performed) if the people you present it to can hear what it will actually sound like-Good luck! Oh, yes- it's www.ravel-vs.com.
I listened to the 2:nd concerto and it has got great potential. Sounds like something a less wellknown orchestra and pianist in eastern Europe might perform in a great way. It will propably be too expensive in the US or Western Europe.
I agree, but as I said above it would be impossible for me to travel to eastern Europe or South Africa, much as I'd love to.
another option you may or may not have tried, there's bound to be orchestras for hire for 'new music' that is, surely with things like movie scores there's recording musicians or ensembles that pretty much pay the bills playing 'new music' i would think getting them to jump on board with a concerto project could be approached in a similar fashion. have you tried talking to some recording studios to see who they use or can reccommend? you might be able to find a group that needs money and would enjoy it (and since they are usually pretty damn good classically trained) and play it well domestically. i know nothing of the movie instustry though so my bad if it's a dead end. just a thought.also if the university scene is coming up dry, consider something like going w the super gifted young musicians, i.e. pre conservatory high school aged kids.you could contact folks at say the interlochen arts academy. they are world renowned for their excellence and have great summer camp and boarding high school programs. they might be willing to consider ithttps://www.interlochen.org/or perhaps a public option (i believe this is part of the houston school district) this place has a very good reputation for musical excellence, you might get some traction at a place like this toohttps://hspva.org/dhtml/
I think you're doing things the other way around. if you want to compose music you should compose smaller pieces and tell a nice group of people you know (if you were in the industry you should have at least conservatory colleagues and teachers you know) and convince them to perform your stuff. May be a group of friends or something and see their reaction. Then go from there, may be someone will be interested in you writing some other piano stuff for them or their students in school.You're suppose to write concerts only if you know someone will play them or you're wasting your time. Except if someone finds those papers in your drawers after you're dead and say "oohhh a genius composer".
There may be some truth in the first part of this post, but I fundamentally disagree with the second paragraph. Ideally you write music, of whatever form or variety, because the creative impulse leads you to. Re the music itself, I've already commented on another forum, and I hope you keep trying. I wonder if the pianophilia forum might be another worthwhile place to post this.
I went over to Pianophilia. It looks like a ghost town over there.
I fundamentally disagree with the second paragraph. Ideally you write music, of whatever form or variety, because the creative impulse leads you to.
Well, yes, but he seems to be worried about someone to perform it, probably to earn a few quid. I think people should be careful in relation to their expectations, if you're an artist and just want to compose for your own pleasure, fine, by all means do it. But professionally, you need to have your feet on the ground and you shouldn't write with the expectation that London Symphony Orchestra is gona play it and give you loads of money unless you're a very established musician.
No one---I mean NO ONE wants to take up my offer. Pretty amazing isn't it? $50,000 even in America, would completely underwrite the costs of a whole concert yet orchestras don't want to even discuss it.
The computerized version is anything but listenable.
it's a bit better. The quantized / step sequenced feel of it just comes off as odd, particularly given the amount of trills going on. With them even time, even volume, and no sense of air or reverb to them.... the mechanical nature gets amplified. I'm not saying it would be quick or easy to correct..... so maybe your best course to produce a great recording IS to have an orchestra perform it...the only way you are likely to get a human feel on that recording is real time play in the parts of the score track by track and then make some edits.just an opinion...it's like a bad job search isn't it..... need experience to get the job, but cant get experience without the job..... need a solid recording to get a conductor to listen to it, but can't get a real recording of it without a conductor and an orchestra playing it.
I'll also say that if you are willing to spend so much money hiring an orchestra, you might be better off spending the money on composition lessons with a good teacher, where you will surely be handed some opportunities to get your music performed
Going back to my post, I should further say that it is not impossible to find an orchestra that can play your piece. A friend of mine, who is also a composer, got a piano concerto of his played by a semi-professional orchestra, and his piece was also in an 'old fashioned idiom' (incidentally, he has since gotten composition lessons, he now writes in a modernist idiom, and he now can find performances more easily). If he can do it, then so can you. Yes, say what you want about musical society not wanting such music, but if there is a will, there is a way. You might have to lower your standards for performance, in that you might have to search out local universities for orchestral musicians, but it can be done. When I played my first piano concerto, this is what I did. I got in touch with a local conservatory and found a freelance orchestra made up of community members and college students, paid a little less than $2000, and got to perform with them. They did a better job than I was expecting. This is what my friend did with his piano concerto, and I am sure you can do the same if you find an orchestra similar to this. They do exist, but you may have to do some scouring.I'll also say that if you are willing to spend so much money hiring an orchestra, you might be better off spending the money on composition lessons with a good teacher, where you will surely be handed some opportunities to get your music performed, especially if your music is well liked by your performers (and your teacher, of course). You will not only have to do as much scouring for performers, but you probably won't have to spend as much money on a performance for such a major work as a piano concerto after you get some respectability. I hope this helps somewhat.
Well, now that's really solid advice, retrouvailles. Now let me understand because I'm confused; you go to the conservatory; let them know you are looking for an orchestra to play with. I presume the conservatory establishment dept. says they cannot do it, just as many have said to me; but someone in the orchestra steers you to a freelance orchestra--where? same community or another city?---and is this orchestra made up of musicians from community and conservatory---how is it organized? put together for just this occasion, and if so who assembled all these musicians? or does it give regular subscription concerts on its own? and was the conductor conducting the orchestra for the first time, or was he a friend of your composer-friend, or was he the appointed conductor of this freelance orchestra? was the concerto performed in public concert or privately? And how did he get the pianist; a friend of his, or did he hire him as I am trying to do? I ask all this because if I had to go out and organize such a venture it'd be absolutely impossible for me to handle the logistics of it all.Far as the composition teacher goes, I hear what you are saying, but I contacted a few who were not very receptive to my style of composing. And honestly, my composing days are over. It's just too stressful and being 61, I have no career to look forward to. I just want to get my two concertos performed before I die and leave some recorded performance and score behind in published form or, in worse case, in the IMSLP/Petrucci. Big project, I know but honestly the money is the least of my headaches. I have real estate rentals and can make up the investment quite rapidly, but I don't want to invest the money stupidly, in the sense of buying a used BMW with 100,000 miles for $15,000 that will give nothing but inferior service, when for another $15,000 I get get a brand new one trouble-free. The biggest headache I have is simply finding a pianist willing to learn the concerto even for a fair amount of cash, which I consider to be 5-10k depending on their reputation and an orchestra willing to play it for a fair amount which I consider to be 20-25k, again depending.By the way, which concerto did you play with them?
Yes, I just went to the conservatory and said that I am looking for a freelance group to play the orchestra with, and I was referred to the conductor of an orchestra that was made up of local community members, university students, and the like. They actually did give concerts on their own, but they also worked with soloists who wanted to play concertos. I didn't know the conductor at all, or any of the orchestra members, so I didn't know what to expect, but they still did a good job. I am quite confident that you can find an orchestra like this in your area if there are some universities with music schools nearby, simply because music students need performing opportunities outside of their university, and that's precisely what an orchestra like this provided. Again, you might have to lower your standards because they probably aren't going to be as good as a 'real' professional orchestra. Oh, and by the way, I played Arensky's Fantasia on Russian Folksongs when I did this.
That's an interesting choice of repertoire. Did you have difficulty getting the orchestral parts for the orchestra, or did you have to make them yourself? And what do you think is a fair price for a pro/semi-pro pianist to charge a composer to learn a concerto of medium difficulty of a half hour length?
you could also transcribe or re-compose the parts ala string orchestra to wind ensemble conversion. you might have much more luck approaching wind ensemble directors, i have found them generally SUPER gracious and fantastic to work with. i got to do this last year with a concerto conversion (orchestra parts transcribed for wind band), and it was a ton of fun. all involved had a blast, and the musicians and conductor were super great expecially since wind bands generally dont' get the opportunity to do solo plus ensemble works.
I had no trouble at all. When I performed it, I got the set of parts via interlibrary loan through my university within a week of my request.As far as your fair price goes, I wouldn't be able to answer that question, for I haven't been in that position before. I don't want to provide misinformation.
Retro, I notice from your profile that you are in Los Angeles, same as me. Would you have any interest in earning some money learning and performing one or several movements of this concerto? Contact me via PM if you are. I have found that most people respond most favorably to the last movement. Here is a better audio. People have commented it is nearly devoid of MIDI sound.
Topic: I Have Composed Two Piano Concertos--How Do I Get Them performed? 