Kohler & Campbell

[deni1311]

Hi! I'm new here... and I need some advice. I FINALLY have the money to buy a grand piano. I have been doing some research and so far I have two options:

a) a kawai baby grand.
b) a kohler & campbell.

Both pianos are new, and the prices are very similar, so the difference wouldn't be an issue (KC is slightly cheaper) but I have some questions... At my university, I use to play in a new Kawai, so I kind of have that brand figured out... and I like it. Of course it's nothing like my professor's glorious Imperial Bosendorfer, but I think it's a good piano, and it is OK according to what I need in a piano right now, and my budget. But, I would like some insight in the K&C. I've never played one of those before, just heard the name, and I read various posts on the subject here, and the opinions seem to be quite divided...
What do you think? Is K&C a good piano brand? I can decide if I like it based on the sound and the touch, but does anyone of you know something about the machine itself? Is it durable, reliable, stays tuned? Or it would be money wasted???


Thanks a million, and I hope you can help me!

[hfmadopter]

You would probably be getting a decent piano in the KC if you go with the Millenium series. These are assembled in the Samik facility in Korea, the parts are Canadian, US and German. All good name brand parts are used in the making of the Millenium pianos. Finalization of the piano is done in the US, that's finishing, regulation, voicing and tuning.

The New Yorker series is Indonesian made, the parts list not as diverse as with the Millenium series.

All that said, I'd look for a good deal on a used Yamaha C3 personally. I like grand pianos at least approaching 6'. In a Kawai many 5'10" models out there as well but the C3 really has it's unique sound at 6'1". Kawai has a 6'1" model too but it's brighter not so much the rich tone of a C3. Some people like bright though.

I like KC's 12 year warranty on the Millenium but did you know in the US you can get a good used piano with 10 year warranty and life time full trade in value if you trade up in value ? So maybe you buy a Kawai and in a few years trade up to a C3 or Steinway for instance and get all your Kawai money back. I'll get the link for you, you can hear the pianos played from this place too, I just found the site yesterday.

Here is my update with the link: https://rickjonespianos.com/grands.htm   Of course this won't help you if you aren't in the US or if you really have your heart set on a new baby grand.

[deni1311]

I like KC's 12 year warranty on the Millenium but did you know in the US you can get a good used piano with 10 year warranty and life time full trade in value if you trade up in value ? So maybe you buy a Kawai and in a few years trade up to a C3 or Steinway for instance and get all your Kawai money back. I'll get the link for you, you can hear the pianos played from this place too, I just found the site yesterday.

Here is my update with the link: https://rickjonespianos.com/grands.htm   Of course this won't help you if you aren't in the US or if you really have your heart set on a new baby grand.

Thank you for your reply! But you're right, I don't live in the US, I actually live in the other tip of the continent, in Argentina, but thank you anyway!
In a couple hours I have the appointment to try the K&C... let's see how it goes. I will ask the series of the piano

Thank you for taking the time to answer!

[49410enrique]

if it's a full japanese kawai (sourced assembled, etc), those are pretty solid pianos. work horses w proven long reliability track records and also if you live ina  humid environment or have litte in the way of consistent temperature and humidity control over the room, thet tend to hold up well over time. i can't seak to the KC or non japanese kawai though ( i think kawai has a 'cheaper' line done elsewhere)

[deni1311]

I just came back from trying the K&C. It was an odd feeling. I was confortable with the touch, the weight, everything, but the sound was just weird. From the lower end of the piano to the G3, the sound was really mellow (somewhat muffled, but I know that's normal with new pianos); but right from the A3 up, it started sounding reallyyyy bright. It felt like two different pianos, I didn't really like it. Do you know if it's normal with new pianos too? I don't think so, but perhaps I'm wrong...

[hfmadopter]

I just came back from trying the K&C. It was an odd feeling. I was confortable with the touch, the weight, everything, but the sound was just weird. From the lower end of the piano to the G3, the sound was really mellow (somewhat muffled, but I know that's normal with new pianos); but right from the A3 up, it started sounding reallyyyy bright. It felt like two different pianos, I didn't really like it. Do you know if it's normal with new pianos too? I don't think so, but perhaps I'm wrong...

 I hope the shop tuned it !   Baby Grands are a tough call IMO, a compromise on string length and then try to make big piano sound. And yes, I'm sure it has to played in as well. Which model was it?

Have you played the Kawai ? If not then maybe that would suit you better right off. And what model Kawai are you interested in ? 

[hfmadopter]

if it's a full japanese kawaii (sourced assembled, etc), those are pretty solid pianos. work horses w proven long reliability track records and also if you live Ina  humid environment or have little in the way of consistent temperature and humidity control over the room, the tend to hold up well over time. i can't speak to the KC or non japanese kawaii though ( i think kawai has a 'cheaper' line done elsewhere)

I think you will find Kawai Grands are made in Japan. Only the lower end uprights are not, as I understand it. The upper end uprights are made in Japan, again as I understand it ( and I certainly could be wrong).

However, I don't care for the sound of the smaller grands so much anyway in general. 5'10" and up sound nice. Smaller than 5'7" have less harmonious sound to me. But hey that's me ! I think maybe there are a handful or short grands I care for the sound of. 5'1" Steinway comes to mind, I played on one years ago that sounded nice. I'll just keep my 5'11" Henry F Miller going. but if I had to upgrade pianos, I'd consider a 5'10" or 6'1" Kawai and certainly the 6'1" C3 Yamaha. I would most certainly buy used. I'd consider a Boston too.

[deni1311]

I hope the shop tuned it !   Baby Grands are a tough call IMO, a compromise on string length and then try to make big piano sound. And yes, I'm sure it has to played in as well. Which model was it?

Have you played the Kawai ? If not then maybe that would suit you better right off. And what model Kawai are you interested in ? 

It was a KIG 50... I haven't played the Kawai yet. It's in another city, so I will go there next saturday...The Kawai I was offered was the baby grand, GM-10 LE if I recall correctly. The problem is, I can't have anything bigger than a baby grand! There's no enough space in my house. If I bought a larger piano, I would have to sleep under it! So baby grand it is (the electronic piano fell out of the question a few years ago, and I haven't had a piano in my house for a few years now), at least until I move to a bigger place...
I'll let you know how the try out goes next saturday with the kawai thing... I hope the sound is better, uniform at least....


Cheers!

[hfmadopter]

It was a KIG 50... I haven't played the Kawai yet. It's in another city, so I will go there next saturday...The Kawai I was offered was the baby grand, GM-10 LE if I recall correctly. The problem is, I can't have anything bigger than a baby grand! There's no enough space in my house. If I bought a larger piano, I would have to sleep under it! So baby grand it is (the electronic piano fell out of the question a few years ago, and I haven't had a piano in my house for a few years now), at least until I move to a bigger place...
I'll let you know how the try out goes next saturday with the kawai thing... I hope the sound is better, uniform at least....


Cheers!

I would expect the Kawai to be a fine instrument. You may find the keys have a bit of resistance, not heavy but responsive. I would expect the tone to be fairly even if it's set up correctly. And if that's what you have room for so be it ! You probably won't do a lot better than a Kawai without moving to maybe Steinway or other upscale pianos, not in that size..

[deni1311]

I would expect the Kawai to be a fine instrument. You may find the keys have a bit of resistance, not heavy but responsive. I would expect the tone to be fairly even if it's set up correctly. And if that's what you have room for so be it ! You probably won't do a lot better than a Kawai without moving to maybe Steinway or other upscale pianos, not in that size..

Of course I plan to upgrade some day, but for now, it's all I can do... I dream with the gorgeous Bosen I will have some day 

[hfmadopter]

Of course I plan to upgrade some day, but for now, it's all I can do... I dream with the gorgeous Bosen I will have some day 

Like I said the Kawai should be a nice instrument. Personally I like a bit more length for sound but many are happy with baby grands too and some really sound nice. You just do with what you have to do with. Kawais are known to be well made..

 I consider myself lucky to have landed a 5'11" grand years ago that was a partial restoration and affordable to me. I traded a bunch of work and a very reasonable amount of cash for it and that's been my piano for 30 years or more now. Getting a little clunky now, I just tune it up and touch up the action myself. Some day it will get the rest of its overhaul or more of it at least .. It will probably be my grand for life and go on to one of the kids or grand kids after that.

I'll be curious to see what you are thinking after the trial of the Kawai !

[deni1311]

I'll be curious to see what you are thinking after the trial of the Kawai !

Yes! I'm really excited! I'm going to the city where the Kawai is next Saturday. If I like it, I think I will buy it right away. I'll let you know... I can't believe I will have my own grand though...

[deni1311]

Hey, hfmadopter!!! I went to that city yesterday, and I played a lot of pianos, including the new Kawai they offered me... I went with my reliable tuner (my new hero), and I didn't really like the Kawai I told you about (a GM 10 or something). But then, we went to another piano dealer, and they offered me a seminew ge20... It was love at first sight. The touch was perfect, and the sound amazing! It's only 19 years old, and the previous owner never really played it, plus it was thoroughly checked by this guy, my supertuner!
So, 24 hours after that... the piano is sitting in my living room and I still can't believe it! I feel the need to look at it repeatedly, just to make sure it's still there! I'm so happy!!!!!!!!

[hfmadopter]

Hey, hfmadopter!!! I went to that city yesterday, and I played a lot of pianos, including the new Kawai they offered me... I went with my reliable tuner (my new hero), and I didn't really like the Kawai I told you about (a GM 10 or something). But then, we went to another piano dealer, and they offered me a seminew ge20... It was love at first sight. The touch was perfect, and the sound amazing! It's only 19 years old, and the previous owner never really played it, plus it was thoroughly checked by this guy, my supertuner!
So, 24 hours after that... the piano is sitting in my living room and I still can't believe it! I feel the need to look at it repeatedly, just to make sure it's still there! I'm so happy!!!!!!!!

Well I just think that's wonderful, congrats !!!