Learning Chopin Etude op.10 no.3 - too difficult?

[cuberdrift]

Based on self-estimation I place myself around Grade 6, since I have tackled a few Sonatinas, Beethoven's Moonlight (1st mov't), and Rach's "Bumble bee" pretty well. I am a very enthusiastic amateur piano player and I listen a lot to piano recordings.

Unfortunately, I want to play this Etude which is difficult from the beginning. I've got little problem with hitting the notes correctly (as this Etude is one of the technically easier ones of Chopin), but my mind is ground to atoms in the first bars. POLYPHONIC sh*t MAN!!!   

This is my first real introduction to playing a composition that's actually for three hands - notice the right hand plays both a melody and harmonic accompaniment, while the left just provides for the bass.

It's not that I will never master it, it's just that my progress is rather slow due to the crappy complexity.

Should I give up? If not, should I

1) Focus on learning it slowly, gradually, progressing only when I have perfected the first few bars, or
2) Never mind mastering it, since if I learn the entire piece by reading it I will eventually perfect it.

What should I do? Thank you.

(Also, I'm tackling an even harder piece, this: https://vkgfx.com/scores/tatum/tatum__t42.pdf but I'm taking my time on that one. Learning hellish pieces makes me lazy.  )

[jas_sorian]

Should I give up?

Maybe you should just set it aside for now. Trying to learn a piece not within your reach may do more harm. You may end up feeling disappointed with yourself and that is not good. 

2) Never mind mastering it, since if I learn the entire piece by reading it I will eventually perfect it.

I think that that is a bad way of learning a piece. Repeating and not trying to correct your mistakes will most likely confuse you in performance.

As I'm not a teacher, I cannot give advices on what you should do. 

[hfmadopter]

It could be too much at this time. However if to proceed with the Etude, do learn it correctly. My teacher way back when always put me into an agonizing crawl to learn rough spots. I mean slow slow slow, oooonnnnne nnnnooooote aaaaaat aaaaa tttttiiiiiiiimmmmmmmmmme slow, first individual hands , then both together till I got it. If it was in the first measure, so be it, learn it though, you will be much better playing the piece later on. And Etudes are about learning anyway..

As another poster said he is not a teacher, neither am I but I know what my teacher did with me on any piece, including etudes. I really can't suggest to you if you should continue with the Etude or not but that's what worked for me on learning the tough spots.

[pytheamateur]

This piece is about something more than just hitting the right notes.  You could consider playing some Bach two and three-part inventions first.

[j_menz]

This piece is about something more than just hitting the right notes.  You could consider playing some Bach two and three-part inventions first.

+1 Though I'd add that you should also aim to do a couple (at least) of preludes and fugues first also.

[danhuyle]

If I find a piece too difficult

- I can't play through it a lot of times
- If you struggle with the notes each time you play


If it's a piece that you CAN handle you can
- play it a lot of times
- play the music well
- interpret it in 5 or more ways
- don't feel affected by technique

If you play a virtuoso piece and you don't feel good about it, then that's a sign that you're not ready to play the music. I've got a lot of pieces like that, and rather than moan about not being able to play it, I'd play pieces I can handle then come back to the piece later on.

[cuberdrift]

If I find a piece too difficult

- I can't play through it a lot of times
- If you struggle with the notes each time you play


If it's a piece that you CAN handle you can
- play it a lot of times
- play the music well
- interpret it in 5 or more ways
- don't feel affected by technique

If you play a virtuoso piece and you don't feel good about it, then that's a sign that you're not ready to play the music. I've got a lot of pieces like that, and rather than moan about not being able to play it, I'd play pieces I can handle then come back to the piece later on.

I'm not sure what you actually mean, but I realize a piece is a bit too hard for myself if I have difficulty mastering it. For example, a Mozart or Clementi sonatina is quite easy for me, I can sight-read a page and then play it 60-80% correct by ear after that. Not so with the Tristesse and the Tea for Two...

[jesc]

A teacher offered to help me polish this. I'm trying to recall how I got through it since it was a long time ago, during my early highschool years.

Firstly, I recall focusing on the top most melody. When I started taking formal lessons in classical music and this etude is being polished, only then did I take careful notice of the different voices playing. Looking back, IMO the voices are not as complex as a Bach piece so the suggestion to play Bach will definitely give you an edge on keeping track.

That was back when I wasn't properly trained so I expect many to disagree with that approach so I'm just relating my experience.

[virtuoso80]

As many students learn, there's a big difference between playing the notes of a piece and playing a piece well. The Op. 10, no. 3 hammers that home by being easy-ish note wise, but a killer study for controlling voicing of different lines. Realize first, that you're adding an entirely new layer of difficulty to your piano playing, and as such it will NOT happen overnight. Keep trying, but don't think this is an easy piece just because you can play the notes!

[chadbrochill17]

Maybe the fact that you hear, or read, this as a three hand piece is an indicator that you aren't ready yet.

[scott13]

Play through Bach's WTC, once you are comfortable with 3 and 4 voice fugues, then go to that etude. 

[beebert]

Play through Bach's WTC, once you are comfortable with 3 and 4 voice fugues, then go to that etude. 

Not really necessary to play through Bach's WTC, since most of the fugues there are about ten times as complex as Chopin's etude.

[johnmar78]

Cube, something in life that involves challenge and motivation, if you aim low, you will get low, but if you aim high, you get high (I mean music).
If your motivation is high and strive for difficult pieces, its a good sign. But beware that you dnt fall in a trap that injure your hands by doing so.
Jumping from G6 to G9, or even G11 pieces is a big leap.

[p2u_]

Jumping from G6 to G9, or even G11 pieces is a big leap.

Not if you use the right inversions of those chords with both hands.

Paul

[johnmar78]

Not if you use the right inversions of those chords with both hands.

Paul

LOL Paul, i was indicating jumping from grade 6 to grade 10.

[jmanpno]

LOL Paul, i was indicating jumping from grade 6 to grade 10.

lolz... I was wondering why you didn't choose a better voicing too!

[scottmcc]

From the initial post I would say yes, this is too hard for you for now.  But, there's no harm in tinkering with it on the side while your technique grows to match your ambition.  Just don't spend too much of your time on it.  Play each of the voices separately, then integrate them.  Play slowly and meticulously.  Then if you get frustrated leave it for a few weeks or months and you will be pleasantly surprised at your progress when you return to it.

And by the way, the middle of this étude is far more challenging than the opening few phrases.  Keep that in mind. Good luck!  It's beautiful music, but harder than you think.  As others have said, playing the notes is only the beginning, playing them well is the real challenge. 

[sleepapnea]

Basically, if the opening & closing theme is too difficult to play, it is hard to imagine that you would be able to handle the middle sections.

The piece is both harder and easier than you think is it.

Excellent advice has been given for you to practice the opening theme. I would also advice you to pay close attention to the movement of the bass - playing these notes well will give the piece momentum; if you ignore them, the melody will be static and meaningless.

What is going to get you to play the middle section is this - fingering. The hardest part of the piece is the lines where the hands are playing the semi-atonal sounding chords in parallel motion. Fingering and slow practice solves practically all your problems here.

In general, for the middle section - learn the notes, find a fingering, and *memorize*. Practice using different rhythms - "triplet one, triplet one, triplet one, triplet one" and "one triplet, etc" work very very well for learning the ascending and descending chords.

 

[jesc]

BTW, IMO from the purely "etude" standpoint, you can slow down the middle section and still benefit from it. I would go far to say that you can slow it down to your level and it will not be a waste of time for your practice.

Now, the performance level is a different issue and of course it should be played at the proper tempo.

[scott13]

And by the way, the middle of this étude is far more challenging than the opening few phrases.  Keep that in mind. Good luck!  It's beautiful music, but harder than you think.  As others have said, playing the notes is only the beginning, playing them well is the real challenge. 

I do hope you're joking. The middle section largely consists of a pattern of descending 6ths played by both hands with the same fingering all the way down. A simple pattern going down is not the guts of the etude. The difficult lies in balancing the opening phrases so each voice has the right amount of emphasis.

Hence my suggestion to the OP that he should look at the WTC simply as this is the best way one can learn to handle multiple voices.

[joeplaysthepiano]

I learned this piece when it was way too difficult for me.  The hardest piece I could previously play was a Kuhlau Sonatina.  I probably made every mistake in the book when practicing, but after 5-6 months, I was playing this piece very well.  If you love the piece enough, why not go for it.  You are much better off learning easier pieces first, but I found that I greatly benefited from learning this piece and I started learning pieces at this difficulty level or higher from then on.  I say go for it.

[scottmcc]

I do hope you're joking. The middle section largely consists of a pattern of descending 6ths played by both hands with the same fingering all the way down. A simple pattern going down is not the guts of the etude. The difficult lies in balancing the opening phrases so each voice has the right amount of emphasis.

Hence my suggestion to the OP that he should look at the WTC simply as this is the best way one can learn to handle multiple voices.

Well I respectfully disagree. I've dabbled with this étude enough to know its difficulties, at least under my hands, and I find all those sixths to be maddening. But I found the opening to be relatively easier to play, although I do agree that voicing is the crux of the matter. But I've also spent some time with the wtc and other polyphonic works so I may just be biased to my personal strengths and weaknesses.

[ajspiano]

Most people will typically find the middle section harder than the opening/ending. Passages like the chromatic tri-tones will be difficult for those with limited experience with something so dissonant. And, its such a passionate section that will be difficult to get into that "automatic pilot" frame of mind and just allow the music to flow out and create the sense of urgency then suspense followed by raw passion.

In saying that, most peoples perspectives are also settled on "can I play the notes?" not "can I execute the passage to a professional standard?"

[pytheamateur]

Well I respectfully disagree. I've dabbled with this étude enough to know its difficulties, at least under my hands, and I find all those sixths to be maddening. But I found the opening to be relatively easier to play, although I do agree that voicing is the crux of the matter. But I've also spent some time with the wtc and other polyphonic works so I may just be biased to my personal strengths and weaknesses.

Sounds entirely reasonable to me.  Different people have different technical issues.

[notsobreitbart]

It sounds like you would do yourself a favor in putting it aside for now.  If you think the first part is hard then the second section will frustrate you.

I am basically self-taught on the piano but studied classical guitar for many years from a master teacher and musician when I was much younger and was very good (much better than I could ever be at piano!).  One of the things I learned studying guitar was that you never want to practice mistakes.  You always need to slow things down until you can practice the part you are working on perfectly.  Then you gradually increase tempo. 

Also, my teacher was very strict about me attempting pieces that were beyond my technical abilities at the time.  Not only is it frustrating and inefficient, but you can also damage your hands/wrists/arms.