How do you count these?

[williamraym]

How do you count the notes in the picture? And in the piece I'm trying to learn is not just like the one in the picture that has a number 3 in it, some has a number 26,14,18,6 and a 5? How do you count them and play them?

[j_menz]

These are all forms of triplets, so you count 1-2-3.  The tricky bit, though, is that the three notes comes in the same amount of time as 2 of the same (apparent) value notes that aren't marked with the "3". (so as two quavers, two crochets and two quavers in the first bar of your picture).  Some people use the lowest common multiple to count so as to get the relationship correct, so in this case, that would be six with the "normal" notes held for 3 and the triplet notes held for 2 counts.  This can be tricky when you first encounter it. Do you have a teacher, or someone else, who can give some practical assistance?

Can I ask what piece you're playing? It sounds like Chopin, except he usually uses odd numbers rather than evens.

[williamraym]

Here is the cropped sections of what I'm asking. By the way, in the bottom of the picture in the ones that has 18, 6 and 5, why is the key signature is composed of naturals?

[williamraym]

Do you have a teacher, or someone else, who can give some practical assistance?

I don't have a teacher, I'm just teaching myself and searching online about what the unfamiliar symbols mean.

[pianoplayjl]

Here is the cropped sections of what I'm asking. By the way, in the bottom of the picture in the ones that has 18, 6 and 5, why is the key signature is composed of naturals?

That is because the original key signature is cancelled and so instead of D flat major you now read it as C major.

JL

[williamraym]

Oh, thanks about my key signature question. Do you know about those numbers enclosed with a bracket?

[outin]

The triplet and the others (would they be called sixthlets or twelthlets? make counting tricky so I usually just don't. I use my intuition about how it should sound. When you have got the pulse of the piece it's not really that difficult. Also when the other hand is involved it helps. You could also listen to someone playing the piece to get an idea of the rythm.

I think the unconscious process I use would be counting as I normally do in the piece and so figure out the exact time the passage with the triplets (or any number) should last and then just even the notes out to this. This might not work to everyone though, especially if it's still difficult to keep a steady beat (the only thing in piano playing that seems to be really easy to me...)

[p2u_]

How do you count them and play them?

Since it's for self-learning, you might want to have a look at the counting lessons on pianolessons.com [not intended as an advertisment!]
https://www.pianolessons.com/piano-lessons/counting-piano-lessons.php
They also have clips on other theory subjects that may be of help to you:
https://www.pianolessons.com/piano-lessons/piano-theory.php

Paul

[williamraym]

It still confuses me on how to count and play them, because they if you count them normally you will be go beyond the time signature so how do you count them to make them fit the time signature?

[p2u_]

It still confuses me on how to count and play them, because they if you count them normally you will be go beyond the time signature so how do you count them to make them fit the time signature?

You can take ANY unit in any bar as "the beat" and divide it into 2, 3, 4, etc. Then you remember how those separate snippets sound, put them together, and just forget about counting them. So if it says 4/4, but there are many quick notes in the music, then it may be useful to take 8th notes or even 16th notes as the beat until you've learned the sound result of what is written. You really don't want to sit and count until a hundred and thirty-two, at least - I'm too lazy to do that...

Paul

[williamraym]

You really don't want to sit and count until a hundred and thirty-two, at least

Paul

Good point. Lol.

[outin]

I think Paul explained it rather well...

One way to think of it: Make sure you know which notes are on the beats, learn to keep the pulse steady and learn to play all the necessary notes between the beats correctly as they are written, if triplets then make sure they are evenly spread. Since you don't have a teacher I think it would be good to record your playing to check that it sounds correct.

But to be honest when it comes to more complex rhythms I'm a bit lazy and if possible I just listen someone play it so I get it

[brianvds]

You can take ANY unit in any bar as "the beat" and divide it into 2, 3, 4, etc. Then you remember how those separate snippets sound, put them together, and just forget about counting them. So if it says 4/4, but there are many quick notes in the music, then it may be useful to take 8th notes or even 16th notes as the beat until you've learned the sound result of what is written. You really don't want to sit and count until a hundred and thirty-two, at least - I'm too lazy to do that...

Paul

I think those weird notes are more the result of modern music notation software than a conscious decision by the composer. If you look at old scores, you sometimes see such cascades of notes, often printed smaller than the rest, filling a bar. The intention is simply to play them fast and use your good taste.

But with a lot of notation software (I notice it with MuseScore anyway), if you want to ram in more notes than the time signature allows, you HAVE to turn your notes into triplets (or sextuplets, or nonuplets, or quintillionuplets), which then gives rise to this weird and frickin' impossible to count or play notation. My advice: play them fast and use your good taste. If the composer doesn't like it he can sue you. :-)

[brogers70]

You don't have to make it harder than it really is. If you have a "3" over 3 eight notes, that means the three of them fit into one beat. That's easy, and you probably know that already. The other numbers in brackets on your second example work similarly. If you have 5 sixteenth notes with a 5 written over them, then you fit them all into one beat. That's simple enough, I think.

It may become more complicated, so if you have 18 sixteenth notes with a bracketed 18 over them, then you obviously do not fit them all into one beat. You have to use a little common sense; normally 4 beats would be filled by 16 sixteenth notes, so if there are 18 bracketed 16ths, you would squeeze them evenly into four beats. Or if you have 7 bracketed 16ths with a 7 on top you'd stretch a little bit so that they fit evenly into 2 beats. Get the general idea?

With you do it strictly in time or not depends on the piece and the composer. Chopin has a lot of such notation and often means for you to be pretty relaxed, keeping the basic pulse, but not putting in all the little notes exactly evenly spaced. Other composers might put a bracketed 5 16ths in one hand and 4 normal 16ths in the other, intending you to play the polyrhythm exactly in time.

Bill

[williamraym]

Thanks for your replies, it gave me some ideas and I hope I would be doing it right.