Are the greats REALLY that great?

[rachmaninoff_forever]

I mean people like Horowitz, Richter, Cziffra, Arthur Rubinstein, Jorge Bolet, Martha Argerich, Lazar Berman etc.

Are they really that great?

Whenever I hear a recording of one of these guys, I feel like that I'm supposed to like their recordings.  So I subconsciously convince myself that I like them, when I really don't?  Like just because everyone says that Horowitz Rach 3 or Mendelssohn variations are the best, I'm supposed to believe it?  You know, I feel like some people, including me, say that these pianists are incredible without really knowing why.  Like we say it just because everyone says it.  And if we find a recording that everyone says is incredible, but you think otherwise, you end up trying to believe that it is to conform with society.  Even with Lang Lang!  He's a fantastic pianist!  But since like everyone in the piano community hates him, they'll all say that he sucks just because everyone says that they hate him.  You know what I mean?  It's kinda like someone saying that Beethoven was a great composer but is only familiar with the first page of Fur Elise.  They do it to conform.  You know what I mean?  A while ago, I found myself saying that Glen Gould was the best pianist ever but I was only familiar with his Goldberg variations.  What the heck is going on?!

So taking that in consideration, are these guys really that great?  Or are we just saying that because that's the politically correct answer.

Catch my drift?!

[zezhyrule]

You know

You know what I mean?

You know what I mean?

Catch my drift?!

No.

Well yes I understand what you're saying but I find your insistent use of those questions I quoted to be quite annoying 

[p2u_]

Are the greats REALLY that great?

Whoever they are and whatever other people (especially so-called "authorities") say or think, if they move YOU in some way, lift YOU up, change YOUR mood for the better with something they do, they're great. For example, Horowitz in Rach 3 is really great and original, although Berman is my favorite for that one; in other things I find Vladimir Samoylovich rather disappointing sometimes. But since every person deserves credit for what he/she does best, he's great anyway. I also like some things Lang Lang does, and I couldn't care less for what other people think about him. I wouldn't call him great because he doesn't really move me. But that's not the law for anybody else. I also find Yuja Wang great for several reasons. Can't help it.

Paul

[j_menz]

I find that I consider individual performances "great" if, having worked on a piece myself I can then continue to listen to that other performance with pleasure.  In working on a piece, one becomes aware of the potential that it has and it becomes increasingly difficult to find performance of it which do not fall way short.  There is a certain amount of subjectivity here, I suppose, but some pianists can regularly turn out performances that continue to capture the imagination. These are the ones I would consider great. Some of them have that reputation as well. Some that have that reputation do, however, leave me cold.

Never let the popular consensus form your judgement, either by accepting it or (equally flawedly) rebelling against it. As a pianist who can play these pieces, or many of them, you are uniquely positioned to form your own view, informed by the intimate knowledge of the music that only comes to those who can actually attempt to play it.

[ajspiano]

The only bit that matters is what YOU think of them.

J_menz is right though, the 'wonder' effect reduces when you personally can play the works with enough control to properly execute the interpretation inside yourself. - Their performances no longer speak to you quite the same way. Ones that you can never quite match will be the ones you have the greatest respect for.

[stoudemirestat]

I agree with you. Especially with Horowitz - who, despite some great recordings, I find most of his playing to be terrible. Lang Lang is also a very good pianist (he has gotten much, much better in recent years).

[p2u_]

I'd like to add that, for me personally, a performance becomes REALLY great when the pianist reaches the state of self-oblivion; although the interpretation is highly personal, you have a feeling the Universe is speaking. Nobody can reach that state all the time, but some can do that more often than others.

On the other hand, it really turns me off when I feel a pianist is concentrated on him/herself. This blocks contact with the Universe; it is craft, not art.

Paul

[cuberdrift]

I think it's just because these "greats" are established elite musicians. They are objectively very good virtuosos, and have been praised for their magnificent playing.

However, this doesn't mean you have to like them.

It is more a question of respecting them for their immense talent, but not forcing yourself to love their playing. If you are more comfortable with Kissin than Horowitz with the Rach 3, fine. If you prefer Cziffra playing Chopin over Rubinstein's, up to you.

But we still admire and respect Horowitz as a great Rachmaninoff interpreter, Cziffra as an excellent Lisztian, Rubinstein as a tranquil Chopinist.

You can like Metal albums over Mozart sonatas, but that doesn't mean you do not respect the inevitable effect Mozart's works have done over Western music. You can pick the piano as your favorite instrument but that doesn't mean you will look down on Menuhin, etc.

Once again, it is norm to respect these greats, but you don't have to force yourself to actually like them.

[sevencircles]

A good question I think.

Arthur Rubinstein was an overrated pianist I think and so is Argerich. They were both lazy when they were young and you can hear that pretty often.

Horowitz did many wonderfull recordings and some terrible ones as well, his finest moments will always be among the greatest recordings in pianohistory.

[minor9th]

By any standards, all of those pianists can physically get around the keyboard pretty well. Now, whether or nor any individual likes the way they do it is another matter. In the end, if one likes them or not is rather meaningless to anyone except the individual in question.

[brianvds]

See if you can work out which of the music clips are played by a famous musician:

https://reverent.org/famous_or_unknown_musician.html

And see if you can spot the difference between a human and a computer playing:

https://reverent.org/midi_or_virtuosi.html

[sevencircles]

See if you can work out which of the music clips are played by a famous musician:

https://reverent.org/famous_or_unknown_musician.html

And see if you can spot the difference between a human and a computer playing:

https://reverent.org/midi_or_virtuosi.html

Cool idea, would be pretty fun to compare recordings by Argerich and Rubinstein for instance  with unknown pianists. 

[rachmaninoff_forever]

See if you can work out which of the music clips are played by a famous musician:

https://reverent.org/famous_or_unknown_musician.html

And see if you can spot the difference between a human and a computer playing:

https://reverent.org/midi_or_virtuosi.html

Oooooohhoooooooohhhhooooooh, sharp thinking there!

[moovingroovin]

Yea, I do understand exactly what you are saying.

My favourite pianist is Cecile Ousset, I have recordings of him playing all sorts of styles and works, including the Rach Concerto's which are ecstatic.

[chadbrochill17]

It's definitely a lot of personal taste, but there is a reason that they are considered great.