Cheating? Are you kidding me?! Why?!

[rachmaninoff_forever]

Why can't I use the left pedal?!  Why does everyone tell me that it's cheating?!  Is there something everyone's hiding from me?  Do people really care about whether or not you use the left pedal?  It doesn't seem to have many friends.  A couple years ago, my teacher raged at me and almost kicked me out the house because I kept using the left pedal, and he said it was cheating!  What the heck?!  Are you kidding me?!  You're gonna kick me out the house for something petty like that?!  It sounds fine!  I don't know what happened between you and the left pedal, but you shouldn't hold grudges dude...

Or even when you use the right pedal in Bach because you can't connect two keys?  In stead of using the right pedal, they make you do this weird thing with your fingering where you have to switch fingers on the same key so you can reach the next one.  What's the point of doing all that work when you have the pedal?!  Does this really matter?  As long as you make it legato, it doesn't matter right?!

It doesn't matter how you play it, as long as it sounds fine right?  Aaaaagh, I'm so confused!!!  What are you guys hiding from me???

[nyiregyhazi]

Why can't I use the left pedal?!  Why does everyone tell me that it's cheating?!  Is there something everyone's hiding from me?  Do people really care about whether or not you use the left pedal?  It doesn't seem to have many friends.  A couple years ago, my teacher raged at me and almost kicked me out the house because I kept using the left pedal, and he said it was cheating!  What the heck?!  Are you kidding me?!  You're gonna kick me out the house for something petty like that?!  It sounds fine!  I don't know what happened between you and the left pedal, but you shouldn't hold grudges dude...

Or even when you use the right pedal in Bach because you can't connect two keys?  In stead of using the right pedal, they make you do this weird thing with your fingering where you have to switch fingers on the same key so you can reach the next one.  What's the point of doing all that work when you have the pedal?!  Does this really matter?  As long as you make it legato, it doesn't matter right?!

It doesn't matter how you play it, as long as it sounds fine right?  Aaaaagh, I'm so confused!!!  What are you guys hiding from me???

To give a brief answer, you're probably right much of the time and wrong much of the time. The trick is to find the balance. There are times when nothing but pedal works effectively in Bach. You have to know the difference between the kind of troubles you should reasonably take with fingering and situations that would simply amount to pointless contortion.

[cadenza14224]

I think the Una Corda pedal has it's supporters and objectors. The main thing it does, especially on upright pianos is that it tends to take less momentum from your fingers to strike the keys because it moves the hammers closer to the strings; so it kind of ameliorates your touch. I know for certain pianos it's beneficial: for example, Yamaha pianos tend to be ridiculously hard to play softly because the keys/hammers seem to be heavier to strike. But touch sensitivity gets better with higher quality pianos (so i've heard).

People tend to consider it cheating because it sort of does give a handicap to your touch. And if you make it a habit, it kind of screws with your finger strength. I was addicted to the una corda, and when I gave it up and tried playing pieces I knew stone-cold without it, there was a huge difference in the perceived weight of keys.

But I mean, I guess if you're  a hobbyist, and you're not playing professionally, and your music sounds great with it, I don't see a problem with using it.

[sphince]

That's soo true.I also used to hold down u.c. pedal in every piece I played no matter how loud or soft I wanted it to be heard,then 1 day (about 5 years ago) I played on a recital with a yamaha grand,I played without u.c. and I failed catastrophically because every key seemed to me as it was being kept from hitting the string by a brick wall and every time I pushed it it tried to penetrate the wall.Traumatizing experience.Now I never use it.I only use it when my score underlines PPPPPPPPPP

[iansinclair]

A couple of thoughts here...

First, on the left pedal.  It has a totally different effect on most uprights from the effect it has on a grand, and it is the effect on a grand which is important -- and why one should learn to use it properly.  On a grand, the effect of that pedal is to shift the entire action to the right, so that instead of the hammer striking all three strings (on the higher notes -- the break depends on the piano) it strikes only one.  This does make the volume less -- but that's not the purpose; it also changes the quality of the sound as you now have only on struck string and the other two are vibrating in sympathy.  The purpose of the pedal is NOT to change the volume (although there are a lot of people who call it the "soft" pedal) but to change the tone quality.

Now on most uprights this isn't the case -- as noted, all it does is change the rest position of the hammers relative to the strings, and it really is a "soft" pedal.

So... the problem is, if one gets accustomed to using it as a means of reaching a pianissimo on an upright one is not using it correctly. 

With regard to using the right pedal with Bach (or anyone else for that matter!) to assist one with otherwise messy fingering, again it really isn't technically correct (admiission: I do it all the time!) as the action of the right pedal is to lift all the dampers, which will give a different tone quality since all the notes (of a well-tuned piano!) corresponding to the overtones of the string struck will vibrate in sympathy.  However, if one uses it minimally -- depressing it just before releasing the note with the clumsy fingering change and releasing it immediately after reaching the next note -- the effect is minimal.  Better if you don't have to, but there are times... 

[49410enrique]

i wouldn't say using the una corda is 'cheating' per say, but to use it solely as a volume control modality is 'less correct', more and more i'm finding it is more of a tool to change the 'color' or quality of the sound vs. total quantity of sound, though it does limit your totla output to some extent i seldom use it for such reasons (*main exception is for accompanying weaker studnet musicians where i have no choice but to try and kill as much sound as possible or the solist simply cannot be heard, not optimal but situation dependent and usually instructed specifically to do so by respective non piano music professors).

same approach with the other two, what's the music call for? what the appropriate sound? what are we trying to express, we should have a  musically sound and expressive reason for doing anything physical at the keyboard (99% of the time at least. sometimes you don't have a choice based on how you are physically put together.)

[j_menz]

A couple of thoughts here...

First, on the left pedal.  It has a totally different effect on most uprights from the effect it has on a grand, and it is the effect on a grand which is important -- and why one should learn to use it properly.  On a grand, the effect of that pedal is to shift the entire action to the right, so that instead of the hammer striking all three strings (on the higher notes -- the break depends on the piano) it strikes only one.  This does make the volume less -- but that's not the purpose; it also changes the quality of the sound as you now have only on struck string and the other two are vibrating in sympathy.  The purpose of the pedal is NOT to change the volume (although there are a lot of people who call it the "soft" pedal) but to change the tone quality.

Now on most uprights this isn't the case -- as noted, all it does is change the rest position of the hammers relative to the strings, and it really is a "soft" pedal.

So... the problem is, if one gets accustomed to using it as a means of reaching a pianissimo on an upright one is not using it correctly. 

With regard to using the right pedal with Bach (or anyone else for that matter!) to assist one with otherwise messy fingering, again it really isn't technically correct (admiission: I do it all the time!) as the action of the right pedal is to lift all the dampers, which will give a different tone quality since all the notes (of a well-tuned piano!) corresponding to the overtones of the string struck will vibrate in sympathy.  However, if one uses it minimally -- depressing it just before releasing the note with the clumsy fingering change and releasing it immediately after reaching the next note -- the effect is minimal.  Better if you don't have to, but there are times... 

Agree entirely (even with the "I do it all the time"  )

[thing2emma]

i wouldn't say using the una corda is 'cheating' per say, but to use it solely as a volume control modality is 'less correct', more and more i'm finding it is more of a tool to change the 'color' or quality of the sound vs. total quantity of sound, though it does limit your totla output to some extent i seldom use it for such reasons.

Agreed! I had to work very hard to convince my teacher to allow me to use it for Bolcom's Graceful Ghost Rag, but eventually she agreed when I told her that it was entirely to shape the colour or timbre of the sound, not the volume. It worked great. I also am considering using it on movement 2 of Pathetique. Other than that I have never needed to use it.

[pianoman53]

For me, it's a bit too vague in the information to say if it's cheating or not. Like the Bach-example, or many other composers: To right from the beginning say "Nah, why bother using real legato when there is pedal" is a very bad habit. In some halls, the use of pedal will make it sound really bad. It also changes the color, and you should stay away from that. One should have as much options as possible, when you are in the mastering stage. If you then chose to have pedal, Because of the color, it's perfectly fine.

About the left pedal: If your teacher wanted you to practice your touch, then you should stay away from the left pedal. If I had a student, to whom I told to don't use the left pedal, but kept using it, I would probably be a bit upset.


This is all only my opinions, and you don't have to agree...

[pytheamateur]

There's one practical use of the left pedal on a grand piano.  Sometimes, when the sound is too bright to your liking, owing to the deep lines on the hammers that arose from them repeatedly hitting the strings, you depress the left pedal slightly, so that a different area of the hammers hit the strings.  In the result you might get a mellower sound.  My teacher does that all the time with his practice piano.  However, his advice is to me is that one should first learn to play without relying on the left pedal.  When one has reached a certain level, one can then start experimenting with it.  Therefore, it will not do to press the left pedal as soon as you see a pp.

[pytheamateur]

  In stead of using the right pedal, they make you do this weird thing with your fingering where you have to switch fingers on the same key so you can reach the next one.  What's the point of doing all that work when you have the pedal?!  Does this really matter?  As long as you make it legato, it doesn't matter right?!

Finger substitution is an essential skill and occurs frequently in the standard repertoire. Finger legato does something that the right pedal can never do.  It is therefore important to work out a good fingering when you learn a piece.

To see for yourself, try playing the right hand melody of Chopin's Nocturne Op 9, No2 with one finger.  Even with the pedal down, it will sound horrible.

[keyboardkat]

You should know that Horowitz used the left pedal much of the time, not for control of soft dynamics, but for color.  Two strings struck and one string sympathetically vibrating - it's the least percussive sound the piano can make  (I'm talking about a good quality grand piano).  So much for calling this "cheating."

The only pianist I ever saw who never used the left pedal was Daniel Abrams (professor at Goucher College in Towson, Maryland).  He suffered congenitally from a shortened right leg, and his right shoe therefore had a very large thick sole to equalize his legs for walking.  He used his left foot on the damper pedal.  Obviously, this made simultaneous use of the left pedal impossible.

[pianist1976]

To sum up in a few words: the main problem with left pedal is that many piano students (and some professionals alike) accustoms to use it always in order to play piano nuance instead of learning to control their fingers (and the rest of the body). Every pianist must be able to play piano and pianissimo without the help of the left pedal. The left pedal is only a tool, a resource to add expressiveness to the music by changing the color of the tone, it's not a substitute of the fingerwork to  play pianissimo. We must also remember that left pedal in most uprights is useless...

BTW, very few people seems to realize that the left pedal can also be played in every nuance, also for mf, f and even fff. It depends on what sound do you want to get.

[ihck]

Or even when you use the right pedal in Bach because you can't connect two keys?  In stead of using the right pedal, they make you do this weird thing with your fingering where you have to switch fingers on the same key so you can reach the next one.  What's the point of doing all that work when you have the pedal?!  Does this really matter?  As long as you make it legato, it doesn't matter right?!

Being able to change fingers on a key is an essential skill that one must develop. Though it seems like a lot of work, it becomes quite comfortable once you've mastered the technique. Using the right pedal does not create legato; it may imitate legato, but all it actually does is sustain the first of the 2 notes that you're trying to connect. As for your issue with the left pedal: what piece were you playing when your teacher raged at you?

[rachmaninoff_forever]

Being able to change fingers on a key is an essential skill that one must develop. Though it seems like a lot of work, it becomes quite comfortable once you've mastered the technique. Using the right pedal does not create legato; it may imitate legato, but all it actually does is sustain the first of the 2 notes that you're trying to connect. As for your issue with the left pedal: what piece were you playing when your teacher raged at you?

Rachmaninoff prelude 32 10.  Just for the intro and the last page.

[omar_roy]

Either people are overreacting, or you're using too much/exaggerating their responses.

The una corda pedal shouldn't be used as a way to get a quieter sound because it changes the color or quality of the sound.  As such, you should only use it if that color change is something you want.

Regarding Bach and the sostenuto pedal...it has its place.  If people can tell you're using it, then you're using it too much.  The reason behind this is that the pedal can blur some of the harmonic changes, resulting in unclear and muddy sounding music.  That is the opposite of what you want for Bach.  Ideally, you should only use the pedal when it is physically impossible to play a certain passage in Bach without it.  If you can use finger substitutions, then do them.  In the space of a living room, it might not make a huge difference, but even the slightest misuse of such pedals can make dramatic changes to the music in the space of a concert hall.

It is essential for every pianist to master the skill of finger substitutions, and also to be able to play piano or pianissimo without the "aid" of the una corda pedal, because its true use is to change color, not to act as a substitute for a lack of control over sound.

[werq34ac]

What people have been saying about the left pedal is correct for the most part. All in all, the left pedal is not there to change the volume. It's there to change the color.


As for right pedal in Bach, I personally think that as long as the harmonic and melodic integrity is maintained (and in the case of Bach these two things must be crystal clear) then pedaling is fine. Personally I add pedal to the final chords of any Bach piece just to add a bit of resonance.


Keep in mind pedaling is a combination of ears fingers AND foot.

[le_poete_mourant]

Rules are meant to be broken...there is an exception to every rule... etc etc. I think it is unwise to tell anyone NEVER to use the soft pedal or NEVER to use the sostenuto pedal in Bach. There are times when it is appropriate, necessary, tasteful, magical -- when used correctly!! But you need to be taught to use it correctly, and that is your teacher's responsibility.

As some of the above comments have mentioned, the left pedal should primarily be used for color. Some might consider it "cheating" if you are using it to achieve a soft dynamic that you cannot organically produce with your own fingers. (I believe Neuhaus said that you should practice so that you are able to play one note from ppp to fff, with all gradients in between.)  The treatment of dynamics should be a different topic of discussion with your teacher. I think the soft pedal is most effective as a tool to highlight moments of unexpected harmony or mood changes. What do they say about using a hatchet instead of a scalpel? I think that is what you must apply here.

Regarding the sustain pedal in Bach: It must be used with discretion and taste. There are points where, as someone mentioned, it adds resonance, which can be very effective. For example, I find it to be extremely necessary in playing the slow E major fugue in the WTC Book II. BUT in preparing this piece, it is absolutely essential to practice and learn it without pedal first and then add pedal where it makes sense. And this can't be simply because it makes it "easier" -- it must be because it makes it sound right.

The thing about Bach on a piano is that we are working on such a different instrument than what existed in Bach's time that we are essentially playing a transcription. We must be careful to observe matters of style and things like that, but it is certainly not written in stone that we cannot ever use pedal...

[rachmaninoff_forever]

Either people are overreacting, or you're using too much/exaggerating their responses.

Well he actually did almost kick me out the house.

[pytheamateur]

Well he actually did almost kick me out the house.

It seems you have quite a moody teacher.  It reminds me of a lesson I had with a former teacher who told me off for bashing the piano during Brahms's Scherzo.  He said I was damaging his 7-foot new Fazioli!

[le_poete_mourant]

Many people also don't realize that you can use gradients of the left pedal. This is only possible on very good pianos, not uprights or less refined pianos, but it can be very effective as well.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

It reminds me of a lesson I had with a former teacher who told me off for bashing the piano during Brahms's Scherzo.  He said I was damaging his 7-foot new Fazioli!

I actually knocked off a couple keys trying to play Chopin's black key etude with a tennis ball.

I blamed his son. 

Your teacher must be pretty stacked to get a 7 foot Fazioli!

[pytheamateur]

I actually knocked off a couple keys trying to play Chopin's black key etude with a tennis ball.

I blamed his son. 

Your teacher must be pretty stacked to get a 7 foot Fazioli!

He had always had a lot of students, but he was only able to afford a Fazioli by going into business, by setting up 3 music rooms and hiring them out to professional musicians.  He had since expanded his business and now runs a piano selling and hiring business alongside the music rooms.  Actually, I should say "she" now because he has apparently changed sex since I last had lessons with him.  He/she was definitely a character!

[danielekstrom]

Cheating tends to imply the end results will be same. Putting the right pedal into Bach will be very different. It's a good idea sometimes, but not aways. Like any composer. Personally, I like to be able to play most all of my pieces with and without pedal. It's just better that way.