Chopin's Etudes

[wonzo]

Obviously the 24 etudes are extremely technically challenging pieces of music and are generally used to build solid technique. This being said, I do think a pianist could be able to build good technique and virtuosity without actually touching any etudes. I do not think the etudes must be learned to have good technique. BUT - which etudes, without learning all of them, do you think would create the best well-rounded overall technique for a pianist? (i.e. the 1st, the 5th and the 12th?.. or the 13th, the 4th and the 2nd?.. etc, etc)

Your thoughts?

-W

[49410enrique]

hmm interesting question, i was taught to believe, and after spending some time with several, that the etudes (not just Chopin's but many of the very difficult Romantic, Late Romantic, and Post Romantic/Early Modern etc. ) do not neccessarily build technique (though they might with an intelligent approach and/or smart sound instruction i.e good teacher) but rather help refine and and improve upon an already sound technique,

i.e. i would not go about learning Op. 10 No 1 to learn how to do arpgegios, but I would use it help me increase fluidity and ease in moving effortlessly accross the keyboard with agility while using them musically.

my approach to them is first as musical pieces, (not just the Chopin  Etudes, since though they are pretty they are not my first choice for etudes to learn), what do i like to listen to most. what speaks to musically to me ? then i look at what technique is required to pull it off successfully, if it is inmy tool box of skills (even if ony rudimentary) then i'll pony up. If it will require something of me I do not have at all, then i will need to strongly consider if it will be wise for me to still attempt or if i should do some 'remedial' work before coming back it.

still your question is a good one and i think if they were supplemental to other technical exercises and with good guidance, i.e. perhaps also using the Cziffra (I believe it was him) studies on the etudes in addition to the etudes would make sense in certain instructional settings.

[pts1]

I think its important to look at the Chopin Etudes in the context of the times.

It is nearly impossible to imagine that out of nowhere, two of the most pianistically revolutionary geniuses of any era, emerged on the scene at the same time -- Franz Liszt and Frederic Chopin.

What they played and created was not even vaguely close to anything composed up until their emergence as contemporaries (Liszt living roughly twice as long as Chopin)

From a pianists point of view, it would be something like the internet and personal computer coming on the scene roughly at the same time in a world ruled by printed material transported at a snails pace geographically.

So I see the Chopin Etudes (along with Liszt's) not as etudes at all, but of extraordinary music that presented heretofore unimagined technical challenges.

All of the Chopin Etudes were "revolutionary" etudes.

And make no mistake, the music is the key to the difficulties, not the other way around.

This, I believe, was Chopin's intention, and it was with a twinkle in his eye that he presented these "studies", knowing full well, those who slaved over the notes by traditional technical means of that era would never open the magic door of the music.

[cmg]

I agree wholeheartedly with both posts.  When I finally realized that the musical conception was at the heart of Chopin's "Etudes," they became playable.  Well, some of them!

[wonzo]

I agree wholeheartedly with both posts.  When I finally realized that the musical conception was at the heart of Chopin's "Etudes," they became playable.  Well, some of them!

Yeah some of Chopin's etudes (mostly in the opus 25) are not very appealing to me.

[jacb555]

lol op 10 isnt that hard. op 25 no 1 is a beast and op 25 no 11 is imposible. i hear its a requirement for a docter's degree lol

[danhuyle]

lol op 10 isnt that hard. op 25 no 1 is a beast and op 25 no 11 is imposible. i hear its a requirement for a docter's degree lol

I wouldn't call 25/11 impossible. I learned that WITHOUT a piano teacher.

Back to the topic. I don't use Chopin's Etudes to develop technique. It's more to learn how to turn complex technique into works of art, much like Liszt Etudes. The idea behind these etudes is bringing out the simplicity of the music without being affected by the technique, but don't turn these into a disaster.

If you want to develop, you're better off playing all 12 of Scriabin's Etudes Op8. You've got a better chance of completing those than with Chopin's Etudes, and they're far easier too IMO.

So I see the Chopin Etudes (along with Liszt's) not as etudes at all, but of extraordinary music that presented heretofore unimagined technical challenges.

All of the Chopin Etudes were "revolutionary" etudes.

And make no mistake, the music is the key to the difficulties, not the other way around.

This, I believe, was Chopin's intention, and it was with a twinkle in his eye that he presented these "studies", knowing full well, those who slaved over the notes by traditional technical means of that era would never open the magic door of the music.

I've played a few Chopin etudes, however I'm completing Liszt's 12 TE and Scriabin's 12 Etude Op8 since I prefer it. I look at these as works of art rather than technical exercises. You have to "ignore" the technical side of things and look at it from an interpreter perspective because learning the notes is the easy part. Anything beyond that...

[ajspiano]

lol op 10 isnt that hard. op 25 no 1 is a beast and op 25 no 11 is imposible. i hear its a requirement for a docter's degree lol

Interesting perspective - Marik made a great post about the relative difficulties of the Chopin Etudes a while ago - and since he's actually played near all of them to a high standard he's a reliable source.

In Australia 25/1, along with the majority of that opus are potential repertoire for the AMEBs associate diploma. Where as the bulk of opus 10 are in the list for the licentiate - a significantly higher standard award.

Generally you'll find the consensus to be that the brutal ones are those that have an on going relentless use of a very specific technicality - such as in 10/1 10/2 25/6 25/10 for example. Musically they are all magnificent "monsters".

Proper study of 10/1 and 10/2 will have a significant impact on your difficulty with 25/11, as they are arguably technically combined in 25/11 (chromatics + trancendinal arpeggios)