I need a job...

[rachmaninoff_forever]

My mom won't leave me alone!  She keeps telling me that I need to stop sitting around the house, doing nothing all day and get a job.  Are you kidding me?!  Practicing piano is doing nothing?  And I'm not even home all day!  Then she goes like, 'well everyone your age has a job!'.  Ummm no kid, only like 25% of people ages 16-19 have a job.  THEN she says, 'well you shouldn't worry about what other kids are doing.  If someone jumped off a bridge would you do it?'.  You just told me to get a job because you thought everyone had one!!! . Learn how to construct an argument without contradicting yourself or else you'll be ripped to shreds...


So ANYWAYS, would it be possible for me to like be a pianist at a hotel, a restaurant or something?  I'm not the best sight-reader, but I can learn itty bitty two minute long pieces (something like Chopin's prelude op. 28 no. 4) over night.  You don't have to be able to play something like Totentanz do you?  And do they accept loud and fast works like Chopin etudes?   How big (minutes) does your repertoire have to be to be a hotel or restaurant pianist?  I don't know if I can improvise so...  Or what if I took on teaching piano?  How good do you have to be to teach piano?  I've taught my little cousin before, so I have a tad bit of experience.  But then if my teacher found out, he would probably tear me apart again...    . Or what if I could play for a church?  Except I'm not a part of any church...  And how much do they pay typically?


Please, pass down the mystical seed of job seeking technique to the next generation of pianists and help me find a job.  Or else, a considerable amount salt will be distributed between my mother and I in the future and that's not good for me...  

[williampiano]

I'm around your general age I think and I've gotten jobs playing at churches, so thats definitely and opportunity. I also got a few jobs playing at Holiday Parties for real estate agents. You don't need to play anything really difficult, just nice relaxing pieces that go well in the background. I'm not sure about hotels and restaurants, but I'm sure its the same general thing.

I'm sure teaching would be a good option too. I've never tried it, but ask your teacher to give you tips on how to teach students because I'm sure it would be a good way to make some money.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

I'm around your general age I think and I've gotten jobs playing at churches

Really? . Doing what?  A recital?  Or like playing every other day for an X amount of time?

[williampiano]

Really? . Doing what?  A recital?  Or like playing every other day for an X amount of time?

I usually play Baroque pieces during the offertory at this one church near my house and they usually pay me a little bit. I'm not sure if all churches offer that though.
You can also play with the church choir.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

I usually play Baroque pieces during the offertory at this one church near my house and they usually pay me a little bit. I'm not sure if all churches offer that though.
You can also play with the church choir.

*sigh* I guess that means more Bach...

[ajspiano]

I did that as a teenager at a small hotel - I think they paid me like $25/hour which is crap for that position, but excellent for a 16/17 yr old usually (at least it was back then). It was every week Friday and Saturday nights.

I had to have 3+ straight hours of varied repertoire. Classical only is not an option. People will come up to you and ask for things like "piano man" - and you will win points with the hotel if the guests like you so its good to be able to play their requests.

I had the advantage of being able to sightread contempory music from lead sheets so this wasn't so hard for me - I used to take a MASSIVE stack of sheet music with me. Don't know where you'll stand with this..

[rachmaninoff_forever]

I had to have 3+ straight hours of varied repertoire. Classical only is not an option. People will come up to you and ask for things like "piano man" - and you will win points with the hotel if the guests like you so its good to be able to play their requests.

How much of the repertoire can be repeated? After a performance?  You don't have to learn a bunch of new music every week do you?  And would Czerny technical studies suffice?

[ajspiano]

How much of the repertoire can be repeated?

Don't know what the hotel thought to be honest - but I ended up (after having done it for a few months) with enough improvised/contempory rep to play for an indefinate period, no repeats. For example, I bought a "real book" of lead sheets for jazz tunes - so thats like 500 songs (sight reading) right there.

Thing is that the hotel had regulars, they came for the entire evening every friday for example - I personally hated repeating myself because of this.

...

You should just talk to a venue anyway, ask them what they expect of a pianist whether or not you end up actually doing it. Then you know what you have to aim at to be able to do it in the future at some point at least.

Can you improvise at all? as in you can learn songs very quickly from lead sheets? because all you do is read the melody and you make up the rest?

Edit: I don't mean this to sound discouraging at all.. its just my experience, and the worst that can happen is you either dont get a job, or you get a job and then lose it -which just means you are right where you are at already. You should absolutely go for it.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

Can you improvise at all? as in you can learn songs very quickly from lead sheets? because all you do is read the melody and you make up the rest?

Edit: I don't mean this to sound discouraging at all.. its just my experience, and the worst that can happen is you either dont get a job, or you get a job and then lose it -which just means you are right where you are at already. You should absolutely go for it.

I haven't tried improvising.  And I don't know what a lead sheet is, so that means I can't do it lol!  But I'm pretty sure I can learn A bunch of small songs in a short amount of time.  If I have trouble finding music, I'll just ask you guys.

And as for what you said below, I didn't think anything you said was discouraging

[ajspiano]

Lead sheets are scores that contain a single staff with melody only - and they have chords written above the melody, just like Cm - F7 - BbM etc. etc.

So aside from the melody, the rhythm and exact notes are improvised. When I was probably a bit younger than you someone handed me "the jazz piano book" which is what taught me how to do that because no jazz teachers existed near me. Heavy reading and a lot of practice though.

Also, that background music setting that you get at a hotel means that generally, people are not listening that closely - so you can EXTEND the songs - so say 5-10 songs means a full hour of repertoire for the gig - and the lead sheets might only be 20-30 bars long, because you just learn the verse and the chorus melody and they get repeated several times plus you improvise around it aswell so they end up pretty long for minimal learning.

I used to sight read the sheets one day each weekend and add songs to my rep that way, and built set lists that references the pages within the books so I could find the sheets at the gig. And I got away with that lack of memorisation because I was UNDER 18 - You can get away with a boatload as a teenager, everyone says "wow so talented" - once you're an adult professionalism is expected.

[ajspiano]

I might add that such a pursuit is EXTREMELY valuable for you, if you get good enough at it to be able to work on a cruise ship or something - because that means ZERO living expenses, a good wage, and free travel. Which is pretty awesome.

I was all set to pursue that path, but then I met a girl - they are really distracting.

EDIT:
Teaching is of course you're other alternative. As long as you're conscientious and genuinely care about your students progress you can go down this path - if that's not you then I suggest avoiding it. Teaching is good for you're own development though, nothing makes you realise what you do and don't know better than being responsible for the development of someone else's knowledge.

[quantum]

Regarding church work, you can find some payment guidelines here:

AGO (USA).  Gives good description of contract/hourly pay. 
https://www.agohq.org/profession/salary.htm

RCCO (Canada).  A detailed salary table for those employed on a regular basis. 
https://www.rcco.ca/employment-salary-table.cfm


You can also look into accompanying soloists or choirs.  Accompanying is a highly valuable learning experience, and is very different from solo work.  You may be able to set yourself apart in university auditions by stating you have accompanying experience. 

[rachmaninoff_forever]

I was all set to pursue that path, but then I met a girl - they are really distracting.

Hahahahh lol!

Do you have a list of the popular songs that the hotel guests would expect me to play?

[kclee6337]

I usually play at small bars such as wine bars where they don't expect anything like billy joel or anything but more background music (best equivalent i can come up with is stuff like woodhouse day spa music)

a lot of the people around where I live play covers such as coldplay norah jones and adele and as always it seems they always have to play 100 years by five for fighting.

I usually will do covers like that with about 10 min of improve between songs that way theres continuous music going and every now and then something people will recognize. Its best if you don't already know how, to learn nomenclature. a lot of the pop songs that you can buy for piano music will have the basic melody with the nomenclature on top of the staff learn some of those songs and you'll be ready to play in front of people in a hotel lobby or at small bars.

Generally a gig will last 2-4 hours depending on where at. $25 is rather low, I charge minimum 50 an hour. after playing several gigs somewhere and you start to have people that want to come out to hear you, you will start having calls for other events such as hour parties, office parties, real-estate what not's, museum parties etc.

best to get some business cards made up, vista print does decent work for a fair price. just make sure you get all the information correct before you make your order, or you'll end up like me 1000 business cards all having the wrong phone number and email.   

Good luck to you. 

[kclee6337]

oh and another thing teaching piano is a good source of income and is rather easy, I'm 22 and not very good by any means.
I once read somewhere and for the life of me i can't remember where but, "piano teaching is merely listening to someone play,... they are renting your ears." it was said much more poetically though. when teaching someone to play if its beginner pianist you do teach them how to read notes and everythings which I for one don't have the patience for. I teach more advanced students that know how to read music, when it comes to their weekly lesson, they play for me what they know and I just listen to their phrasing, articulation, and dynamics. hitting the correct notes is their job, my job is to listen to them and hear things they might not be hearing and guide them to what sounds good....

thats the basics it gets deeper when it comes to articulation and making things sounds correct, you get into correct finger strokes curled fingers for passages flat fingers correct muscle movement (one thing my piano teacher and i get into is swaying my elbows, i feel like a chicken trying to fly but she's trying to get me to use the correct muscles to get the right tones) anyways i digress.

Piano teaching is an option if you have the patience for it. depend on how good you are yourself. it could range 20-50 for and hour lesson.

[ajspiano]

Do you have a list of the popular songs that the hotel guests would expect me to play?

Its hardly an expectation, and its different with different people and constantly growing. You can not be prepared for this, experience is required. You just go play, and when someone asks for a specific song, make a note and learn it later on.

You can consider a basic list, but it wouldnt be songs so much as artists and no matter what you do someone will ask for something you don't know. People would come up to me and hum a fragment of a tune that they couldnt remember name (out of tune too) and want me to play it for them. No.

Stuff like Billy Joel is a good starting point, I used to do "piano man" and "new york state of mind". You can do piano versions of well known non-piano songs - I did a version of "blackbird" (The Beatles)..  Plus anything in "the great american songbook" which just means jazz standards - you can google a list of these (there's hundreds if not thousands of them). I just mixed this kind of stuff up between some classical type pieces and complete improvisation. As was said above, largely you are going to be background music in this type of situation so it doesnt really matter what you play, its just to good to have stylistic variety and to be able to make the guests happy since that will result in more work and it being worth it to pay you for the venue.

.............

teaching piano is a good source of income and is rather easy... "piano teaching is merely listening to someone play,... they are renting your ears."

Not that its that difficult but this is an incredibly poor representation - Teaching is taking the responsibility for a persons pianistic development on ALL levels. Musicality, technique, repetoire, theory, motivation...  etc.

Good teaching requires VAST experience, and a level of dedication to the student. Good teachers spend all their spare time deliberating on the best ways to solve a students exact difficulties. Its not an easy task that just miraculously happens at the lesson each week - and teaching beginners is not just about reading notes, you have to foster musical skills from day one. Likewise, teaching advanced students is not just about teaching interpretation - the more advanced the work gets the more likely it is that students will experience real difficulties with learning the notes themselves both from a memorisation standpoint, and a playing comfortably one. Especially if the only thing they learnt as beginners was how to read.

Suggesting that learning to play the notes fluently is the students job just because they know how to read is fairly poor teaching attitude - even if it is a common one.

[kclee6337]

dang and here i am thinking my piano teacher is lazy, during my lessons its usually 30 min of constant scales. then she'll hear what I've done the past week and then assign me to learn so much by the next week.

[j_menz]

*sigh* I guess that means more Bach...

So a win win, then. 

[ajspiano]

dang and here i am thinking my piano teacher is lazy, during my lessons its usually 30 min of constant scales. then she'll hear what I've done the past week and then assign me to learn so much by the next week.

That is one approach, and its one I rather don't like for a variety of reasons - both from my perspective as a teacher and my experiences as a student.

EDIT:
Heaven forbid if you were sent home with that level of instruction on how to learn a fugue.

"Here's some bach! - get it ready for next wednesday." ........#how to manufacture frustration and a sense of failure in a student.

[j_menz]

Tell your Mum that you have looked and have found two openings which fit in with your schooling but that you are having trouble deciding between them:

1) Pimp. Money is good, but it's late at night and you're not to sure the clothes will suit you.

2) Drug Dealer. Money is good, hours quite reasonable, but you'll need her to buy you a gun and there's some travel involved.

Mention the recession.

Let her choose.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

1) Pimp. Money is good, but it's late at night and you're not to sure the clothes will suit you.

2) Drug Dealer. Money is good, hours quite reasonable, but you'll need her to buy you a gun and there's some travel involved.

Well, I'm not very good with women, so pimp is out of the question.

As for drug dealer, if I was ever caught in a jam, I would probably do something stupid and accidentally shoot myself lol

[ajspiano]

Fixed your post.

Well, I'm not very good with women, so pimp is probably a good way to learn..

[j_menz]

Well, I'm not very good with women, so pimp is out of the question.

I don't think "good with women" is part of the job description.

[ajspiano]

I don't think "good with women" is part of the job description.

I figured rach was hoping to not pay them and keep all the money to himself - he'd have to be really freaking good with women or they'd put him in jail pretty fast.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

I talked to my ex teacher and he told me that you don't need to have three hours worth of repertoire to play at a hotel because nobody is going to hear you play for three hours straight, people are going to be moving in an out of the lobby?  So he said that one hour of music played over and over again should suffice.

And then he said that he was gonna tell some of his other students what was with him before he moved to come to me and said be prepared to pay 30-40 dollars an hour!   

[j_menz]

I talked to my ex teacher and he told me that you don't need to have three hours worth of repertoire to play at a hotel because nobody is going to hear you play for three hours straight, people are going to be moving in an out of the lobby?  So he said that one hour of music played over and over again should suffice.

Ah, I think we had a different sort of hotel in mind (ie, a bar). That sounds fine, but the same music over and over is going to bore you to tears after a very short while.

And then he said that he was gonna tell some of his other students what was with him before he moved to come to me and said be prepared to pay 30-40 dollars an hour!   

Sounds like a plan! 

Now that you're gonna be (comparitively) rich, should I point you at my (amazingly lengthy) amazon wishlist? 

[ajspiano]

Ah, I think we had a different sort of hotel in mind (ie, a bar). That sounds fine, but the same music over and over is going to bore you to tears after a very short while.

Yes. The venue I played in was a bar, that backed onto a restaurant, within a hotel. It was pretty common to have the same people there for 4 hours, and then have them back again the following week.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

Now that you're gonna be (comparitively) rich, should I point you at my (amazingly lengthy) amazon wishlist? 

Well all of that money is gonna be cut down to size because my new teacher charges 75 dollars to tear my heart out and use it as a punching bag for an hour.   

[j_menz]

Well all of that money is gonna be cut down to size because my new teacher charges 75 dollars to tear my heart out and use it as a punching bag for an hour.   

Have you actually had your first lesson yet, or is that just based on the audition?


You only have to work 2 hours teaching to pay for 1 hour of lessons, so I'm not gonna feel too sorry for you. You will probably also find that you learn more from the teaching than you actually teach, so a doubly good deal.

And so, my wishlist is....... 

[rachmaninoff_forever]

And so, my wishlist is....... 

I'll still have to pay for a therapist and a surgeon after he tears me apart every week.

[ajspiano]

You will probably also find that you learn more from the teaching than you actually teach, so a doubly good deal.

Might even learn more from teaching than you do from being taught.

[j_menz]

I'll still have to pay for a therapist and a surgeon after he tears me apart every week.

GO ALL THE WAY! 

There may be some people like teachers, judges, or fellow pianists your age who will absolutely crush you, but don't listen to them! 

Would you rather not pursue music and get a boring job at some office doing the same thing for the rest of your life wondering, 'man, what if I kept pursuing piano?', or would you go all the way do what you love and try to become a professional pianist, but fail and become a bum living on the streets, or maybe partially succeed and only make like 35k a year but know that you tried your hardest? 


Would you rather live on your knees, or die on your feet?!

YOU DECIDE!!!

I think your money's pretty safe.    Whether your new teacher will need that therapist is another matter, of course. 

[gitaristica]

I played on a ship. For money. It was funny, although the fee was riddiculous. Plus, I had to play a wide variety of stuff, all from Bach (I'm currently very mad at him) to Jazz. People requested many things, some pop songs and such things. And there were many embarrasing situations when I unintentionally insulted people. Tips were awesome. Thereare two categories of tip givers. 1) patriots : I played some Chopin and Wienawski transcriptions for Polish people and got a 200 kuna tip. 2) people who  are trying to impress other people. It gets quite funny. One guy gave me a 50 kuna tip and said: "Play me some Palestrina." I took the tip and played Variations on Dies Irae. 

[fleetfingers]

When I was 15-16, I played in a restaurant. I had an hour's worth of material, but that's all I'd do is one hour a week. Come back the next week and play the same thing. I wish I would've learned to do what aj talks about though. One night, I showed up to play and there was this other pianist who was playing. I felt bad for the people eating and listening that I had to take over. He couldn't read sheet music and only improvised. It was good stuff and much better than my prepared repertoire.

Another thing I did in high school was accompany the choir. I didn't get paid for that, only got credit. What it did though was put me in a position where everyone knew I was the pianist, and I was asked to accompany many of the band members and vocalists when they competed at regionals and stuff like that. They would pay me to accompany them, and I enjoyed doing it, so it was great. At one point, I taught lessons to kids in the neighborhood, but only a couple and I didn't charge much.

There are ways to make money while playing piano, but I also had normal teenage jobs and loved those, too. It's great to get out there and learn how the working world works. Have a manager, clock in on time, learn to work with others and deal with rude people, etc. As a mom, I have to advise you not to argue with your mother! She cares about you and wants you to be successful in life, however she frames the "argument". Most teenagers I know don't work, but my parents made me, like yours. I'm glad they did. Not only did I learn to work, I learned how to manage money, how to fill out my tax papers, how to save up for something I really wanted, how to open a bank account, etc. If you can find something that involves playing the piano, that is best (if you know that's what you want to do in life), but in the meantime, making money in any way is worthwhile. Well, except pimping - don't really do that, please. 

Another thought that came to me is that there are companies that hire out performers for events. So, instead of trying to get your own name out there (which could be difficult at first), you can gain experience working for an established agency. When I was married, I hired a guitarist that way. I paid him directly, but I don't know how the funds worked out between him and his employer.

Anyway, good luck finding something you love!

[rachmaninoff_forever]

In my resume, what do I put for skills?

And I found a music school that I could teach at, but I'm not a very good sightreader.  I know how to sightread, but I'm not as good as Liszt.  Would that be bad?  I also heard that it's bad to play for your students because that gets them to copy you.  So could I get away with that?

But I'm also teaching little kids who are just learning how to play.  So does that mean more playing for them?  Would my secret be exposed for the world to see?!

[quantum]

[...] my new teacher charges 75 dollars to tear my heart out and use it as a punching bag for an hour.   

To that I refer to Newton's third law:
To every action there is always an equal and opposite reaction



If you like kids, you could look into teaching some early childhood music courses.  They usually are not piano-centric.  No worries if some kid is going to copy your Rach 2 interpretation.  Just fun with music, games, percussion instruments, and the like. 

[j_menz]

In my resume, what do I put for skills?

For your application to teach at the school?  Your highest exam passed and/or your repertoire?

And I found a music school that I could teach at, but I'm not a very good sightreader.  I know how to sightread, but I'm not as good as Liszt.  Would that be bad? 

I'm quite a good sightreader, but I doubt I'm as good as Liszt either. Don't sweat it.

I also heard that it's bad to play for your students because that gets them to copy you.  So could I get away with that?

But I'm also teaching little kids who are just learning how to play.  So does that mean more playing for them?  Would my secret be exposed for the world to see?!

What secret? You should be fine sightreading for the beginners (go off and try some early grade stuff and see).  You'll need to play more for the beginners than the later students. For the beginners, copying you won't be an issue. 

It's really only a problem in higher grades where students are supposed to be developing their own musicality, and moreso if you're one of the "play it like this; exactly like this" school of teacher. For higher grades you should only really be playing over difficult/troublesome passages, not whole works.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

For your application to teach at the school?  Your highest exam passed and/or your repertoire

You know I'm not a big fan of exams or grade levels.

Do I have to list my whole repertoire?  What about stuff that I played then forgot?  Or stuff that I'm currently working on?  Or stuff that I'm going to learn in the not too distant future?

[j_menz]

You know I'm not a big fan of exams or grade levels.

Do I have to list my whole repertoire?  What about stuff that I played then forgot?  Or stuff that I'm currently working on?  Or stuff that I'm going to learn in the not too distant future?

Stuff you could play now if asked.  Not necessarily the whole list, just enough to give a snapshot.

[chopinlover23]

I'm not a professional, just an amateur =)

I've tried playing in a hotel, when I was 12 and a half (not bragging in any way). We were on a vacation and there were 2 pianos in the hotel, one for the lobby and one for the restaurant. I asked the manager directly if I could play, so I did.

That was when I realized that if you're going to play classical music to people who are eating, they wouldn't want loud, showy pieces. They'd want something relaxing and uplifting. I played 5 classical pieces (Etude op 10 no 3, Clair de Lune, Nocturne in E flat, Jesu Joy of Man's desiring and Sheep may safely graze) and 5 Jazz pieces. People loved it... and the manager wanted me to play more, but it was already 11:00 when I finished and I had to go to bed. So I told him that I would play for FREE every night for an hour.

Here's a tip: If you dont want people asking you to play a piece you dont know, print out a program that lists the pieces you are going to play. That way people will stick to it.

Hope it helps,