Performing Prokofiev 7th Sonata

[greenturtle34]

Hi I'm going to be learning Prokofiev 7 for a recital. How difficult is this piece, and do you have any suggestions for performance?

[49410enrique]

sonatas are big difficult works.

on a breakdown basis, the first movement should give you the least grief. the rest of it? way difficut. i applaud you for taking this thing on. that iii. percipitato is a bear of a movement and very seldom have i heard it done convincingly well at the student/amateur level. it's possible but i put no. 7 in that upper echelon category of pieces that usually hangs out in the bucket list neighborhood. good luck!

btw here's my favorite 'isolated' performance of the iii. mvnt. pay close attention to the score shots showing his copius notes and performance cues. there's a lot going on in this piece, anyone ponying up to it has their work cut out for them that's for sure, especially when you take the entire work as complete whole (all mvmnts) into account!

[pts1]

The 7th Sonata is a monument of a work, and make no mistake, very difficult.

And what is so difficult, IMO, is bringing out the "back story" theme of common man trying to survive in a dystopian society, which is what this is all about.

If you can find it, listen to the Horowitz recording of the whole thing, which IMO gives a very good "character study" of what the piece is about. Also there is Richter's version, also great.

Most pianists make the mistake of playing the last movement too fast, which destroys the point of it. Listen in the link to Richter playing the last movement, bringing out the relentless, crushing savagery of the dystopian machine. Played too fast, and the rhythm is destroyed, and the effect is gone.  

Richter was the one who premiered the work having learned in 4 days.

https://www.newmillenniumrecords.com/classroom/room42.html

I think the 1st movement is the most difficult technically, and the 2nd musically.
The last movement's real difficulties lie in the last two pages. Again, if you lose your nerve and speed up throughout the last movement, by the time you hit the last two pages, you are DOOMED!

It is NOT the speed of the last movement that is impressive, it is the controlled savagery of the thing, trying to keep it in its box!

[cmg]

Hi I'm going to be learning Prokofiev 7 for a recital. How difficult is this piece, and do you have any suggestions for performance?

First of all, to suggest that you are going to be performing this sonata and you have no idea "how difficult" it is, is an absurd proposition, isn't it?  This is one of the technical and musical summits of the musical repertoire.  

The first response you got was generous and kind, but indicated that the piece is about next to impossible except for pianists of Dichter's genius.  True. The second response was more ruminative and thoughtful, more an expression of the poster's experience with this piece (and the suggestion that he was a master of it) than offering actual, direct advice.  More a vanity response, if you will.

Both answers, however, should point you in the direction of reality.  This is not a sonata you can currently perform.  You know that and I know that.  If you actually have to ask on an internet forum about its difficulties, then please forgive me, you're either deluded, ignorant or very much in need of a good teacher.

Sorry to sound harsh.  But posts like this dominate forums.  They are obviously thoughtless.    

[pts1]

The second response was more ruminative and thoughtful, more an expression of the poster's experience with this piece (and the suggestion that he was a master of it) than offering actual, direct advice.  More a vanity response, if you will.

Ha! That's pretty funny!

I'm not suggesting I'm "a master of it" (the sonata) but I do know it well for many years, and its one of my favorite pieces. God, I hope I have some insight into by now.

And actually, I did offer a little direct advice about the third movement, and gave my opinion about the difficulty of the other two movements.

I don't get the "vanity response" thing, since I don't feel vain or superior about it at all.

And what real advice could anyone give to someone who has yet to learn the notes?
This piece will have to be learned many times over the years to really play well.

It will become self evident to him soon enough, what's he's tackling, so I see no reason to make nasty remarks like you did.

If he asks, I say he's curious and want a little help, internet or not.

[pianist1976]

Hi I'm going to be learning Prokofiev 7 for a recital. How difficult is this piece,

It's infernally difficult. I played it 14 years ago (my God, times goes fast... and I don't care a damn if someone thinks I'm bragging about, I'm also proud to having played für Elise and several Burgmüller etudes).

Well, most of this sonata is playable (having a minimum background and technique) but there are a few places that are very hard, specially if you don't have huge hands. I recall, for example, the beginning of the development of the 1st movement with those 9ths. Very difficult for my average size hands. The other main difficulty found frequently in this sonata are jumps. You don't need NASA science to overcome these. Practice, practice, repeat, repeat isolated segments until it's more or less mastered (I don't think this work can be 100% mastered).

Of course, nobody should attempt this piece without a minimum technique and musical background. Otherwise is losing time and energy worthlessly.

[davidjosepha]

I'm still waiting for the sheet music for this to arrive in the mail, but I did find a copy online and printed the first couple pages of the Precipitato and started playing it. I've got the first two pages up to the speed Richter plays it with only a short out-of-time hesitation when you have to jump to/from the chords to the single high notes, and I've only spent maybe an hour on it. Obviously, the first two pages are the easiest portion of the movement, but I had a lot less trouble than I was expecting to have. Most of the chord changes are 2 of the same notes repeated while the third moves chromatically, which isn't too difficult if your hands are large enough (you have to cross 2 & 1 and/or 4 & 5 while stretching your hand a bit and playing a note with your 3). If your hands aren't large enough to cross your fingers, you'll have to move your thumb/pinky quickly and I imagine you'll have a lot more trouble getting it up to speed (and keeping it there). The left hand is extremely simple and you should have absolutely no trouble with it.

Keep in mind, I can only guarantee what I'm saying applies to the first 2 pages: I haven't played the rest yet. Also, chords and rhythm are my greatest strengths as a pianist, and those are, so far, the two biggest parts of the piece. If you have small hands or find 7/8 too confusing, you might want to pick a different piece.

[pytheamateur]

Here's another performance I found on Youtube.  Your feedback is most welcome.  Is it regarded as a very good performance. 

I don't understand this music at all and have no desire of ever playing this piece.  Why do people bother with it when they can play Rachmaninov?

[davidjosepha]

I don't understand this music at all and have no desire of ever playing this piece.  Why do people bother with it when they can play Rachmaninov?

I love Rachmaninoff. I absolutely love him. There are maybe 3 pieces by him for which I wouldn't consider it a worthwhile investment to take the time to learn. But his style, especially when played by most performers, leaves nothing to the imagination. He wears his heart on his sleeve in his composition. His playing is a whole different matter--he plays everything dry and doesn't overdo things. But in the way most people play Rachmaninoff, with so much heart, along with the intense notes, it can be too much.

I don't find that so much with Prokofiev. It isn't all perfect melodies. In fact, with much of his music, it isn't any perfect melodies.

But of course, the question is silly! Why play Haydn when you can play Mozart? Why play Scarlatti when you can play Bach? Why choose one when you can play both?

[greenturtle34]

Thanks to everyone who gave advice! I just started learning it and it is quite a challenge, but I'm up for it. And to the person who called me ignorant and deluded, you are obviously ignorant of good manners. You really must have no life if you just go around insulting people on a freaking piano website  .