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Uh well (Read 1708 times)

Offline perprocrastinate

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Uh well
« on: July 08, 2012, 10:46:29 PM »
In two months I'll be making a fool out of myself by having to present to my friend 3 Chopin Etudes (don't worry ajspiano, I'm still going to work hard on those Bach Inventions), which will probably not be fully developed to a good degree.

I was showing him some Alkan works that I believed to be difficult, and he stated them to be overrated in difficulty, then fishing out my obsession with virtuosity. Then I just had to be an idiot and flaunt my ego, trying to prove that I'm not a totally failed self taught amateur pianist.

His response to Comme Le Vent was that I was unnecessarily defacating bricks about it.

"basically a whole lot of trills and not many difficult transitions"

Have I been looking at pieces the wrong way all this time, and a no better judge than an online IQ test?

But anyways, yeah. Totally looking forward to being a laughingstock. Hey, I'll show you guys the recordings too.

Offline ajspiano

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Re: Uh well
«Reply #1 on: July 09, 2012, 02:10:18 AM »
"probably not be fully developed to a good degree" 3 in two months - technique isnt the only thing to develop here.. these piece mature on a musical level, your interpretation gains quality over extended periods of time... 2 months is kind of nutty to consider the possibilty of fully developing them, perhaps even for a professional pianist - I'm curious as to which ones you plan on presenting.. and what you're going to do it you injure yourself trying to get there..?

I assume the rev since you at least already know most of that I think, but what else?

aside from that -

Are you saying that you are primarily drawn to a piece because of its perceived technical challenge? as opposed to its musical value?

Offline j_menz

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Re: Uh well
«Reply #2 on: July 09, 2012, 02:21:11 AM »
Are you saying that you are primarily drawn to a piece because of its perceived technical challenge? as opposed to its musical value?

If he is, he's unfortunately not alone around here.  ???
"What the world needs is more geniuses with humility. There are so few of us left" -- Oscar Levant

Offline perprocrastinate

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Re: Uh well
«Reply #3 on: July 09, 2012, 02:36:16 AM »
3 that I've already learned, I will waste no more time trying to learn anymore.

Revolutionary- up to speed, but I hate that I absolutely CANNOT get 100% accuracy every time I attempt to play it, always half a dozen or so mistakes.

Ocean- Close-ish to final speed, needs more practice. Also the non-arpeggio sections have this melody I never attempted to bring out.

Cello- Not really technically difficult relative to other Chopin Etudes, but musically yes. Need to work on phrasing and evenness, and not overpowering the actual melody.

--
Yes, I have this sort of addiction to technically challenging pieces because I like challenges. Half of the reason why I started playing piano is because I was bored. Being a teenager in high school, I was naturally drawn to video games. The problem was, they're really detrimental to your mental state if overplayed. So I took up piano (ironically, which still slightly affected my studies).

The other thing is that I get this really demotivational feeling that takes over me if I don't try to learn something at least somewhat difficult. There is an evil voice inside my head that goes "there are 8 year olds that know more advanced pieces than you, you suck". I know piano is development, and one day if I keep at it, I will reach an advanced level, but the voice still overpowers me.

It may seem like I treat piano as a video game, but I do really enjoy the art. It's changed me. I used to listen to modern music, rock, etc, but somehow I've become a classical (including romantic era) purist. It's like that the music is so good that anything else is crap compared to it. I have never gotten chills before when listening to music. Piano sort of changed that.

I am sort of rambling now, so to cut to the chase, I am both largely drawn to a piece because of its perceived technical challenge (unfortunately), and also largely drawn to its musical value.  

Offline chopin2015

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Re: Uh well
«Reply #4 on: July 09, 2012, 03:01:48 AM »
Rev etude finished? SO baller! Man I have been working on that one and abandoning it for some time now. Allow me to ask. Do you use the advised fingering on left hand? How did you practice this one?

Thanks! 

"Beethoven wrote in three flats a lot. That's because he moved twice."

Offline ajspiano

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Re: Uh well
«Reply #5 on: July 09, 2012, 03:07:58 AM »
If you enjoy the art, focus on the art.

You sound as if your performance is tailored toward a focus on being able to "get through the notes" at a virtuosic rate, but that's not even what virtuosity is. Consider your aim as being to be spine chilling, with every note, not just the ones that create the sense of awe regarding your technical ability. The aim is to effect your audience emotionally.

Have an aural image inside of you that dictates EXACTLY what you intend to sound like, play it in your mind while you play - be aware of every note. You'll find there is plenty to work with in lower grade material. Connect your image to a sense of meaning in the piece.

The rev for example, is (in a very roughly explained way) a story of patriotism. A sense of pain and anguish for acts upon ones homeland and a sense of retaliation/revenge, or "the fights not over".  FEEL that when you play it, don't worry about how fast you are playing.

Loosen yourself up physically and emotionally - just go for the notes while intending to express your sound image that tells the story of the piece. You will miss notes. Slow down, focus on the music and intend the story - go slow enough that you can hit the notes while feeling the story/music. When this becomes part of you, as in you are consumed by the musical intention and can hit the notes then you can start speeding up.

bla bla bla.. can't possibly explain this very well in a forum post etc. etc.


Offline j_menz

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Re: Uh well
«Reply #6 on: July 09, 2012, 03:23:20 AM »
can't possibly explain this very well in a forum post etc. etc.

Actually thought you did a pretty good job. Agree wholeheartedly, of course.
"What the world needs is more geniuses with humility. There are so few of us left" -- Oscar Levant

Offline j_menz

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Re: Uh well
«Reply #7 on: July 09, 2012, 03:25:57 AM »
3 that I've already learned, I will waste no more time trying to learn anymore.

Revolutionary- up to speed, but I hate that I absolutely CANNOT get 100% accuracy every time I attempt to play it, always half a dozen or so mistakes.

Ocean- Close-ish to final speed, needs more practice. Also the non-arpeggio sections have this melody I never attempted to bring out.

Cello- Not really technically difficult relative to other Chopin Etudes, but musically yes. Need to work on phrasing and evenness, and not overpowering the actual melody.

So basically three that you have more or less learnt the notes for, and nothing else? I agree it would be a waste of time for you to "learn" any more like this, you still have plenty of work to do in these 3.
"What the world needs is more geniuses with humility. There are so few of us left" -- Oscar Levant

Offline ajspiano

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Re: Uh well
«Reply #8 on: July 09, 2012, 03:34:17 AM »
Actually thought you did a pretty good job. Agree wholeheartedly, of course.

Maybe, but the thing is that you already know what it is like to do that..

Offline perprocrastinate

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Re: Uh well
«Reply #9 on: July 09, 2012, 04:11:30 AM »
Rev etude finished? SO baller! Man I have been working on that one and abandoning it for some time now. Allow me to ask. Do you use the advised fingering on left hand? How did you practice this one?

Thanks! 


Lol, I'm about the worst person to ask for advice. You probably will play it better than I will when you're finished. But yes, I did use the advised fingering on the score. Any other advice from me won't be safe to give out. :P

So basically three that you have more or less learnt the notes for, and nothing else? I agree it would be a waste of time for you to "learn" any more like this, you still have plenty of work to do in these 3.
Hey now, I didn't just mechanically learn those three. I actually attempted to phrase (although quite miserably) the piece, and spent a good amount of time on interpretation.

I think part of the reason why I'm so obsessed with technique is that virtuosity is required to fully express yourself in the piano repertory.

Offline j_menz

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Re: Uh well
«Reply #10 on: July 09, 2012, 04:18:33 AM »
Hey now, I didn't just mechanically learn those three. I actually attempted to phrase (although quite miserably) the piece, and spent a good amount of time on interpretation.

I think part of the reason why I'm so obsessed with technique is that virtuosity is required to fully express yourself in the piano repertory.

Yet you managed to avoid voicings?

Technique is certainly necessary to fully express yourself, but you need to have something to say to make the exercise worthwhile.
"What the world needs is more geniuses with humility. There are so few of us left" -- Oscar Levant

Offline ajspiano

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Re: Uh well
«Reply #11 on: July 09, 2012, 04:36:18 AM »

Technique is certainly necessary to fully express yourself, but you need to have something to say to make the exercise worthwhile.
I'll add to that...

Technique, being so intrinsically connected with musicality is impossible to gain to any high degree without musical intention being the primary driving factor for your efforts.. 

and its as j_menz said re "have something to say" - you may work on interpretation as you no doubt did..  but as you play whats going on in your mind? what are you expressing? are you focusing on that or are you focusing on what keys you have to play?