Questions about Bach sinfonias, WTC

[chi251155]

Hello everyone,

I have finished the two-part inventions, and now jumped to sinfonias. However, I find the gap between the two collections of works is so big. Sinfonia is much more difficult. Is that correct to jump from two-part inventions to sinfonias? And what is the difficulty ranking between those 15 sinfonias. And what is the difficulty of WTC, is it between two-part inventions and sinfonias or they  are not comparable. Sorry for my poor English, and the long post.

Chi

[j_menz]

Some of the Preludes in the WTC are easier than the Sinfonias (and the odd one even easier than some of the 2 Part Inventions). The fugues are invariably not.

Get comfortable with the Sinfonias before your move on to the WTC.

When you are at that point, pick P&Fs that look within your grasp, being careful to only look at the 3 part fugue ones (not the 4 or 5).

[chi251155]

thank you j_menz
I don't even know there are 5-part fugue lol.

[ajspiano]

Depending on your grading scale a rough guide as follows.

The inventions are around Grade 4/5
Sinfonias 6/7
WTC is invariably 7 or 8 if you're doing both the P and F. ...as J_menz noted, there are some easier preludes.

Learn each voice separately in the sinfonias, as opposed to learning separate hands. Then piece them together as combinations of voices, rather than just RH and LH together.

Like This -

Learn to play voice 1 together with voice 2,
Then learn to play voice 1 together with voice 3
Then learn to play voice 2 together with voice 3
Then learn all 3 voices together.

Also, bernhard may have posted a complete learning order as per the way bach taught them, he did for the inventions - do a forum search.


EDIT: I would hasten to add that the grading I presented there was very generalised and is simply as per this websites music collection.. 

You may also find threads such as this one interesting - https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,4736.msg44774.html#msg44774

[j_menz]

thank you j_menz
I don't even know there are 5-part fugue lol.

Yep, Bach even did a six part one in the Musical Offering.

Mozart did a Quintuple Fugue at the end of the Jupiter (5 concurrent different themes, each with their own fugue).  The mind boggles!

[ajspiano]

Mozart did a Quintuple Fugue at the end of the Jupiter (5 concurrent different themes, each with their own fugue).  The mind boggles!

That must be the compositional equivalent of say.. climbing mount everest, twice, on the same day.

[j_menz]

That must be the compositional equivalent of say.. climbing mount everest, twice, on the same day.

South face, no oxygen and carrying a couple of dead elephants, I would think.

Actually, my "favourite" Mozart composition is his first published fugue (a keyboard Fantasia and Fugue); It's the only Mozart I can think of where you can see the wheels turning.  He certainly grew into the form!

[krajcher]

Hello everyone,

I have finished the two-part inventions, and now jumped to sinfonias. However, I find the gap between the two collections of works is so big. Sinfonia is much more difficult. Is that correct to jump from two-part inventions to sinfonias? And what is the difficulty ranking between those 15 sinfonias. And what is the difficulty of WTC, is it between two-part inventions and sinfonias or they  are not comparable. Sorry for my poor English, and the long post.

Chi

Hi,

you are right that sinfonias are much more difficult comparing to two-part inventions. You can think about jumping from inventions to French Suites. There are a lot of dances which difficulty  are between two part-inventions and sinfonias.


Best wishes

[miamlevy]

Maybe you can try the French and English suites by Bach? They are a little harder than the 2 part inventions, but a little easier than the sinfonias.

[49410enrique]

i don't see the big deal. if you can play all of the 2 part inventions, the 3 voice sonfonias seem like a logical next step. if one is harder than the next just move it to the back of the list, i.e. learn the x amount of ones you can first w the least problem then go to the harder ones and take youre time with it/them.

i love those things, they dont' get nearly enough credit (wtc fugues are incredible masterpieces of the repertoire but i don't understand why they are focused on to the exclusion almost of these sinfonias, at least in student and the performance circles i've run around in).

and why does it have to be one or the other, get to work on the sinfonias and also start concurrent work on one of those other works mentioned, i.e.  a suite section dance, etc.