Help-new piano needed for fast learning pianist?

[lani]

My daughter is 12 and has been playing for 5 years and is very much enjoying classical compositions.  We have a second hand Baldwin Acrosonic spinet which was all we could afford when we first moved into our house.  Our rooms are very small (Victorian 1870's), and she has outgrown her spinet in that she is now playing level 7/8 pieces, requiring more dexterity and sound quality.  We can't afford much (ideally would like to spend around 4-5,000).  We would like to know if a small baby grand would be worth the investment for her, since space is a problem.  She is noticing that her technique (i.e. trills, as faster fingering action) is not developing as well as she'd like (her teacher has a Steinway grand).  If she continues to play on the spinet a while longer, will this inhibit her learning/proficiency and technique?  Also is a baby grand worth considering (and in our price range), can we expect the sound quality and action to be much better?  Thanks, Lani

[Axtremus]

Can you please cite the pieces that your daughter is actually playing now? Or, if she follows any of the ABRSM or RCM grade scale, what grade is she working on now?

Honestly, I don't think $5k can get you a grand piano that will be any good for an advanced pianist, and it might actually be better off for your daughter to get a quality upright (or even USED higher quality upright) if you're limited to $5k. Another option would be for your to RENT a more decent grand piano and just pay for it over time. It's hard to say what's actually needed without knowing your daughter's current proficiency level.

[donjuan]

Firstly Lani, I would like to express my most sincere sympathy for you and your daughter having to put up with a spinet.  Spinets are SO bad, it would have been better if you bought a digital for the same price..

What country do you live in? 4-5000$ american?  If so, you probably wouldnt be able to get a very good grand piano- maybe a 5'3'' Kohler and Campbell, Wurlizer, or other korean piano.  I think you should look at a FULL SIZE Yamaha upright instead.  
donjuan

[lani]

I appreciate both responses above.  We are looking at a Kohler and Campbell 5'2" baby grand at a local store.  I would like clarification on the question if a baby grand at this size is worth the investment and sound quality, or perhaps we should look into a leasing/rental option as mentioned.  If so, the piano we'd really like to consider is at this site: http:www.mcquilkinmusic.com/cgi-bin/x8.pl?rd=JTYLDWVC0267946&sc=&ac=DRXLZOAN0888844&pg=ESALHEXC2956044
My daughter loves her spinet for sentimental reasons.  Her teacher has never complained about her technique or lack of due to her practicing on a spinet (and competitions and performances have not been a problem). Not everyone can afford an expensive grand, nor have the space.  If we choose a Yamaha upright, is there are model recommendation?  Her teacher doesn't go by grade levels but chooses around grade 6/7 (ABRSM), Level 8 (CA Music Teachers Association) pieces and feels she is doing fine technically, but will definitely outgrow this instrument probably within the year. Any other creative financing ideas would be much appreciated!  Thanks, Lani

[Axtremus]

OK, if you get a used Yamaha U1 or U3 (assuming in good condition), that should be sufficient to support your daughter to at least Grade 8 on the ABRSM scale, and I have seen many talented students plowed through ABRSM Diploma and even LRSM with a humbler Yamaha U1. So if money is really short, a used U1 in good condition will last your daughter a few more years still.

Once you get pass Grade 8, I agree that practicising on a grand piano can be really benefitial -- not really necessary, but benefitial. The trick is to find one that will have an action better than a Yamaha U1 in good regulation. For your daughter's learning purpose, tone quality is less important than action responsiveness -- as long as the piano can hold a tune and can play both soft and loud and the gradation in the middle, it's work fine tone-wise. It's sad to say that I do not know of any baby grand in the $5k range that can do that. (I am not familiar with K&C and Baldwin  baby grand -- can't help you there, sorry! A used Yamaha GA1 may be a possibility though. New, they cost between $7k and $8k, so may be you can get one for under $5k used.)

Good luck!

[dinosaurtales]

Lani - I can speak from experience here.  I, too learned on a Baldwin acrosonic spinet.  I took lessons through high school, and never felt like I had any particular trouble with technique.  I finally (I am 48!) sold it and got a 7' grand.  What I notice is that the grand's action is built differently (horizontal, rather than vertical) plus the keys are longer, providing more leverage.  My technique has definitely improved!  So even though she can get by fine with the spinet, I woiuld recommend a grand.  If money and space are big problems, then you may wait a while - a really lousy grand won't improve the technique (for instance I played on a Pramberger - the action was almost unpalyable - I would have rather had my Baldwin!) - those Baldwins actually have decent actions for a tiny piano!  But the sooner she can work on a fairly decent grand the better I would say.

[donjuan]

I played on a kohler and Campbell when I was looking for a grand.  It felt like it needed lots of regulating in terms of action and tone, (it may have just been this particular piano) but I think it could be fine..

Just be careful- the cheaper the grand, the shottier the workmanship, the BETTER your technician should be to assess the quality.

Dont stop considering it- I agree with Dinosaur Tales that there are huge benefits to playing on Grands instead of uprights, but I disagree when I say smaller grands are not inferior (I have also played on a pramberger - a little stiff, but still good).  Just so long as the piano is longer than 5', it should serve well.  Besides, for a small room, you dont want a big piano anyway because it will be too loud.

If I were you, I would sit my daughter down at the kohler and campbell and make her play.  If she has any complaints whatsoever, that's the end of it and it's time to move on to the next choice..

by the way, your link doesnt work.
donjuan

[dinosaurtales]

donjuan is right on the too loud thing.  I waaaaaaay underestimated the power of a 7' grand, and my husband almost has to leave the house if I really get *into* it!

I agree with donjuan - mostly I meant just avoid a grand that's so cheesy your spinet is actually better!  because it's possible!

[donjuan]

I agree with donjuan - mostly I meant just avoid a grand that's so cheesy your spinet is actually better!

haha that probably wont happen so long as they dont make grand pianos in ethiopia or nigeria.  It takes a specially talented grand piano maker to make a grand piano worse than a spinet!

actually.......dinosaurtales is right- stay clear of chinese made pianos like "Pearl River"!  Not much use for these other than firewood..
donjuan

[teresa_b]

I recently went piano shopping with my parents, and we looked at the Kohler and Campbell grands.  What I noticed was, you got a LOT more for your money the larger you went.  As I recall, the smallest (5'3"?) may have been about $6000, but I didn't think it was worth it.  The next one was about 5'7 or so, and was better--but the 6'1" grand was an order of magnitude better.  It ran about $10,000.  They purchased this one, and they are happy, as it has an even action, lovely tone, and a lot of power.  

Not to kid ourselves, it's not a Steinway--but I was very pleasantly surprised.  

Teresa

[lani]

Sorry for the link not working (I was in such  rush I forgot to hit the URL link button).  You are all very helpful in responding. After much discussion these past few days with different experts as well as my daughter's teacher, we have concluded that we need to be patient and wait for the right grand piano to come along.  We have reassessed our budget and size and think we should go for a Baldwin Artist M series piano (used) or something comparable.  We have heard good things about this from another forum, and will be trying a few out if we come across them.  Unfortunately there is quite a range of prices and we will get independent tuners to help re: condition, etc.  My daughter thought the K &C sounded fine but nothing special (kinda like choosing wands, i.e. Harry Potter)?  If anyone thinks we're off base here, or have comparable brands we should consider, please let us know.  Thanks vey much for the advice. Regards, Lani

[donjuan]

Lani, have a look at Wurlitzer, Young Chang, and Kawai.  These pianos will not appeal to everyone (for example, I usually hate Kawai), but maybe you will see something that stikes a chord (haha little joke there) with your daughter.  Also, get a hold of a copy of Larry Fine's book "The Piano book" from the local library.  You dont need the most recent edition- just read up on the companies and it will help you make a good decision.
donjuan