Hitting the black keys

[scherzo123]

Are there any pieces that help your accuracy on hitting the black keys? A few months ago, I started the "Black Keys" Etude Op.10 No.5, and I was forced to quit because I kept missing the black keys. Does anybody have any suggestions? Also, if you studied the "Black Keys" Etude Op.10 No.5, can you kindly tell me how long it took to master it? Thanks!

[krajcher]

I am not able to answer your question, but unfortunately your average has already fallen from 40 to only 30 posts per day. Keep writing!

[scherzo123]

I am not able to answer your question, but unfortunately your average has already fallen from 40 to only 30 posts per day. Keep writing!

You observe my average posts? 

[scherzo123]

Nobody?

[rachmaninoff_forever]

The first three pages of La Campanella

[scherzo123]

The first three pages of La Campanella

Wow, good point!

[j_menz]

The first three pages of La Campanella

La Campanella has that accuracy as a starting point, it is not a good place to start learning it.

I'd suggest a Bach prelude in one of the keys with plenty of black notes, or, if you're not in the mood for Bach, the Schubert 90/3 Impromptu.

[ajspiano]

Also, if you studied the "Black Keys" Etude Op.10 No.5, can you kindly tell me how long it took to master it?

The answer to this will be a product of the pianists prior experience, not the difficulty of the etude.

..........

Incidently, (don't get me wrong, it may be valid here) does it not strike you as a little odd to start an etude with an element that is accuracy on black keys, only to give up on it, and look for another etude with that very same problem.

Generally the chopin etudes are a bit of a jump technically however you approach them, you're not necessarily going to be able to handle its pace accurately without work because you've learnt an easier (perhaps slower) configuration of black notes.

A few months ago, I started the "Black Keys" Etude Op.10 No.5, and I was forced to quit because I kept missing the black keys.

More likely a result of your practice methods than a lack of ability, considering the content of your signature.

ACTUAL SUGGESTIONS -

Practice small grouping of notes, 3 notes probably. Overlap the groupings, so group 1, notes 1,2,3. Group 2, notes 2,3,4. Group 3, notes 3,4,5.. and so on.

Practice them FAST and light - full speed, stay relaxed, don't hold onto the notes - get off them and onto the next one. If you have trouble with this, try practicing it "ghosted" as in, just tap the keys without depressing them for a while before returning to normal. If you can't stay relaxed playing 3 notes fast, do 2 notes. If you get the touch right, you will undoubtedly miss the notes, don't worry, just try again - the grouping is so small that you should get it in a few tries.

Once a single group, and subsequent groups are working, join them so you do 4 then 5, then 6 note groupings.

Don't rush it, just work on 1 bar for the first day. Try to thoroughly master that bar at a good speed.

[johnmar78]

Are there any pieces that help your accuracy on hitting the black keys? A few months ago, I started the "Black Keys" Etude Op.10 No.5, and I was forced to quit because I kept missing the black keys. Does anybody have any suggestions? Also, if you studied the "Black Keys" Etude Op.10 No.5, can you kindly tell me how long it took to master it? Thanks!

Sch123, I did this few years back. I learn 20 minutes a day for 3 weeks and memorise 2 bars a day. 3 months to play well. And 2 years to polish.20minutes - 1 hour a day depends on the work schedue-work and life.

Try think first 3 beats as in one group and keep your finger glue to the keys but lightly, this wont let you slip of keys. Keep your forarm light and floaty on just enought to hit the bottom of keybed. pay attention to you last pinky. Cheers

[csano]

although, it might be weird coming from me, who couldn't play black key etude...

this might not be the "conventional" way, but I find it a lot easier to tighten my fingers (like Horowitz, not as much as him though) on fingers that will play the black keys.
In La Campanella, I would generally hit the D# with the joint of my pinky, and the melody part with the joint of my thumb. IMO, hitting it at the joint would help a lot more in terms of stamina, and accuracy, because you have a lot of margin of error.
The con is that it's hard to legato out of it, but for a fast piece like op 10 5, it's fine (look up Horowitz Black key etude on youtube)

1) for the first 2 measures, it depends on what publisher you have, but I'd recommend this fingering: 241 424 152 314 241 424 152 314
some editions have 351, which makes the transition from the 1st measure to the 2nd harder, and  the fourth finger is more accurate for me.

the pinky in the 152 part should push the hand rightwards, and then the second finger after that should play the note while stopping the rightwards motion created by the pinky. (hardest part to play smoothly for me, that's why I quit)

2) measures 3-4 , the octaves should be done with 14, then 15. (if you can reach the 14)
(142 415 142 415...)
what's important the 3-4, is when the thumb moves, (Db Db(octave up) Ab Db Ab(thumb)), the fourth finger playing the Db should push the whole hand right, along with the wrist's snapping, and again, use the joint of the thumb to play it, and you won't mess up.

doing this would rule out about half of this piece.

and La Campanella wouldn't help that much, only for leaps, but black key doesn't have challenging leaps so...

just my opinion, after all, I couldn't play this etude, but the fingers straight and hitting with joints would help significantly in playing this etude, and many other challenging pieces that have lots of fast black keys

[ruvidoetostinato]

I usually play black keys with a more flattened position so that each finger has more space.

You shouldn't quit doing the etude just because it's difficult.  

As stated by a poster above, practicing in groupings would help greatly in accuracy.  

I also suggest playing the different hand positions (my teacher called them handings) in blocked form, moving your hands in a quick horizontal motion to the next hand position and only pressing the keys when your fingers are all firmly planted on the black keys.  I suggest being really meticulous and feeling each of the black keys under your fingers before playing them.  It should feel as though the placement of your hands and fingers are as secure as it possibly can.  Keep doing this continuously and repeating 3 or 4 times whenever you "feel" insecure about where your hand/fingers landed.

Regarding playing the notes separately.  I suggest overlapping the groups that require a change in hand position.  

Therefore, if the grouped hand position are 1,2,3,4 then 5,6,7,8 then 9,10,11,12... I suggest playing it as 1,2,3,4,5 then 5,6,7,8,9.  This ensures that you are connecting these two separate sections.  Also, make sure(like the poster above said) that you practice this as swiftly and lightly as possible, but I suggest only doing this after you practiced the blocked playing.  

There's an idea that practicing slow and speeding up is the way to practice.  However, when practicing slow, you may develop habits due to the extended time you have.  (I'm not saying it's all forfeit, but only think of practicing slow knowing that your goal is to play fast, and thus render all your motions depending on what would enable you to play fast).

This approach starts from the opposite end in which you take the fastest playing (playing all your notes blocked, with quick hand movement) and then play a more slower version (playing grouped notes separately, but with fast and light touch)

== So in a nutshell ==
I suggest:

1) Practicing the hand positions with blocked playing and swift hand position changes, ensuring that your hand and finger placement are as secure as possible before depress the keys.

2) Practicing in grouped notes, making sure that each group of notes overlaps with the first or first two notes of the next group to ensure smooth connection between these two groups. 

I think I put way too much stuff in there.

[asuhayda]

How about Bach's P&F in C# Major (BWV 848 No.3).... That might be less beastly than La Campanella.  The Fugue is challenging though, just to warn you.. it's like 6 pages long in 3 voices.

[wilsonl]

How about Chopin Fantasie Impromtu op.66?

[asuhayda]

How about Chopin Fantasie Impromtu op.66?

VG call.