Rachmaninoff Concerto 2 help

[ktack]

Hi, I am currently working on the Third movement of Rachmaninoff's second concerto for a competition this fall. I must say, this is a piece that, if it doesn't mark the limit of my technical ability, it is probably past it. Hence, I need to work to feel comfortable with the piece. I really don't want to learn another concerto, I feel like my work already done would mostly be going to waste. How to I comfortably, accurately get this piece up to tempo?


Thanks!

[ktack]

anyone?

[christovr]

Rachmaninov considered the 3d Concerto to be more of a pianist's piece than the 2nd.  And although I've only just played through the 3d a couple of times, I've studied the 2nd and I can see his reasons for this:
The 3d (although notoriously difficult seems to me to offer problems which could maybe more easily be overcome.  In the 2nd there is some passages which is just plain akward.  Having said that, take courage - the third movement is easier than the first (maybe even than the second) in my opinion anyway.  As I've mentioned before in connection with Rachmaninov, the best advice I could offer would be to practice very slowly and pay close attention to body mechanics and breathing (wether left crosses over right or vica versa; where your upper body is at any given time; hand angles, etc. and when you are going to recover inbetween difficult sections).

[keyboardkat]

Just some observations:
In Rachmaninoff's own practicing, he used the French method of practicing passages:
Using a metronome set at a slow tempo, play the passage a few times.  Then advance the metronome a notch or two so that your muscles hardly feel the difference and practice it a few more times.  Then advance the metronome another notch or two...
By the end of a practice session, you will have reached your tempo limit.  The next day, start again at the slow tempo and gradually advance the metronome.  After a while, you will be able to perform the passage faster than you need to.  But never stop the slow-tempo practice.
Rachmaninoff felt this was the only way to develop secure fingers and memory.  But it is VERY time-consuming.
Perhaps a better method was the one advanced by my own teacher, the late David Bradshaw:
Divide the notes into groups of three or four.   Play the first group quickly, then stop.  Look and mentally prepare the next grouping, and when you are ready, play it quickly.  Keep doing this until you reach the end of the passage.  Then change the grouping so that you are stopping on a different note.    He learned the entire concerto for a performance in a week using this method.

Parenthetically, I'll note that the late Gina Bachauer studied this concerto with the composer.  He showed her all kinds of different hand divisions and fingerings that made it a bit easier.   She later tried to interest publishers in bringing out an edition which would incorporate these new ideas, but no one was interested.

[pytheamateur]

My teacher at school said the exact same thing about the 2nd being more awkward than the 3rd.

I played the first movement of the 2nd poorly when I was at school and have dabbled with the 2nd and third movements as well.  So, I am clearly not qualified to give you advice on how to learn this beautiful piece.

One person who is qualified to do so is a New York concert pianist and teacher called Anna Maria Bottazzi, having performed it herself at Carnegie Hall in 1998, (and after a performance of a Saint Saiens concerto!).  She did a set of 5 or 6 DVDs on how to learn the entire piano concerto, which I got.  In the DVDs, she discusses the musical aspect, fingering on some passages, technical issues, e.g., what to do if you have small hands.  She actually goes through every bar of the concerto and gives advice on how to practise.

It is true that she seems out of practice regarding the concerto and cannot play many of the passages in performance tempo.  This reflects the fact that it is not an easy piece and is rather awkward, not her inability to play it.

https://anamariatrenchibottazzihands.com/rachmaninoff1.htm