Trouble with 9 11 chords

[drapopolus]

I came across a E♭9#11 chord today in the Michael Jackson song Ben and, whilst my theory is good enough to understand how it's constructed, I can't wrap my head around how to play it. The tones that comprise the chord are E♭, G, B♭, D♭, F, A♭. 6 notes. Is this right? Do you just omit the 3rd or 5th? I tried inversions, but there are too many black keys, and I can't hit two notes with one finger.

[maczip]

suggest G, A, Db, F
or A, Db, F, G

[christovr]

The trouble with 9 11 chords is that guy, Osama bin Laden

[drapopolus]

suggest G, A, Db, F
or A, Db, F, G

A or Ab? A isn't in the chord.

[maczip]

11 in Eb is Ab
#11 is A

[pianoyutube]

You must play only 4 notes with your left hand. You can break the chord, or play an arpeggio.
 
Usually the tonic is omitted in this kind of chords, so you don't play Eb with your left hand.
In a combo the bass plays Eb.

Probably the note A will be in the right hand (the melody). So you could play G Bb Db F with the left.

If it's not the case, A is not in the melody, you'll have some notes of the chord in your right hand, so you can omit that notes in your left hand.

[jamesplayspiano]

Dom9#11 chords are not unheard of in pop music, but they are definitely more "at home" in a jazzier context. To get a feel of how it is usually voiced, play a low Eb in the LH, then come up one or two octaves and play LH G Db + RH F A. It'll sound even richer if you add a C to the top of the chord. (That would technically add a 13 to the chord, but these two chords are often treated as being interchangeable). This is a really cool sound in the jazz world, and is often used by pianists or entire horn sections to create a big, bright sound.

As neat as it is, though, the above voicing(s) probably wouldn't be a great fit in a pop piano context. Chances are one of the altered notes is in the melody, and that could help influence the best voicing for that moment in the piece.

BTW, you'll typically find #11s on chords whose THIRD is major, such as maj7(#11), dom7(#11), and dom9(#11). A natural 11 is more commonly found in a chord whose THIRD is minor, as in min7(add11), min11, min11(b5).

Good luck!

[drapopolus]

You must play only 4 notes with your left hand. You can break the chord, or play an arpeggio.
 
Usually the tonic is omitted in this kind of chords, so you don't play Eb with your left hand.
In a combo the bass plays Eb.

Probably the note A will be in the right hand (the melody). So you could play G Bb Db F with the left.

If it's not the case, A is not in the melody, you'll have some notes of the chord in your right hand, so you can omit that notes in your left hand.

G Bb Db F constitutes a Gm7b5, which the song also uses. In this case are the two chords the same?

[drapopolus]

Anyone?

[piano_vs_science]

The trouble with 9 11 chords is that guy, Osama bin Laden

LOL

[drapopolus]

What's the difference between a Gm7b5 and an E♭9#11? It seems there's no difference. Can someone with sufficient knowledge please help out with this. I'm trying to learn this song.

[pianoyutube]

G Bb Db F constitutes a Gm7b5, which the song also uses. In this case are the two chords the same?

Well, you are right. When the chords are modified with #11, b5, b9, etc.,  you can find the same chord with another name. The truth is that you only have twelve different notes, and hundreds of chords.
Why the composer uses one chord name or another? Because of the role of the chord: Dominant, Subdominant, etc.

[pianoyutube]

I write this in order to clarify my previous post:
You can find in a piece F6 and Dmin7, and where's the diference?
F6=FACD and  Dmin7=DFAC

The difference is in the context. Example: F6 can be the tonic, Dm7 can be the ii grade of C7, wich is dominant of F, and that's only one combination of chords among others.

[jugular]

What's the difference between a Gm7b5 and an E♭9#11? It seems there's no difference. Can someone with sufficient knowledge please help out with this. I'm trying to learn this song.

A Gm7b5 is a half-diminished chord. A Eb9#11 is a dominant [11th] chord. The main difference between the two, other than the notes, is the way they resolve.

A dominant chord almost always resolves to the tonic of the key, so in this case the Eb9#11 should resolve to an Ab major/minor chord (it should probably be an Ab add9 (Ab, C, Eb, Bb) if the #11 is properly being resolved). Of course there are deceptive resolutions such as resolving to vi, bVI (in major keys), VI (in minor keys), and other stuff such as dropping the bass note to the 7th of the chord (4/2 inversion), which lead to the first inversion of the tonic (i6/I6). In Chopin's Nocturne Op.48, No.1 in C minor he tricks the listener 3 bars before the coda:  we expect to hear the tonic chord after the G7 which would end the firey doppio morimento section. Instead we hear a V4/2 of bII (Gb, Ab, C, Eb), which is highly jarring upon the first listening as you expect to hear a simple return to the tonic and then a coda. It then leads to a bII6 (F, Ab, Db), which subsequently leads to the coda with a simple V7-i motion. Chopin never fails to deliver!

Half-diminished chords are fun little chords, as they can be used in a variety of ways. They mainly play a pre-dominant function in traditional 4-voice harmony, meaning that the next chord following them will usually be the dominant chord of the given key. They do NOT function as dominant role, even if they contain certain notes of the dominant chord in the given key. Take the two chords we have in the MJ song for example, the Gm7b5 consists of the notes G, Bb, Db, F; the Eb9#11 consists of Eb, G, Bb, Db, F, A (natural). You can see that the half-diminished chord consists of the third, 5th, 7th and 9th of the dominant chord. Why then is it not considered a dominant function chord? The answer is simple:  it doesn't provide a strong cadential motion. The strongest cadence is a V-I motion, where scale degree 5 in the bass resolves to scale degree 1. This is why the Eb9#11 going to Ab would be considered dominant, because it's bass is scale degree 5 in the given key (Ab) going to scale degree 1. The bass note of Gm7b5 is scale degree 7, which is NOT a strong motion when going to the tonic- it isn't considered to be a cadence at all actually. My theory professor use to rant on about how half diminished chords are just half-assed dominant chords, which is true in a sense. They do provide a mysterious colour to music, especially in Impressionist and Jazz music I find.

Sorry for ranting on for so long, but there is a LOT that can be discussed between these two chords and their roles. Tell me if you want me to clear up anything I said here.