I have small fingers and difficult to play mostly Chopin and Rachmaninoff works?

[wilsonl]

I'm very interested with piano, but my major problem is, I have small fingers, even my fingers difficult to play 4-notes chord even 5-notes, or play full-scale appergio that commonly used on Chopin and Rachmaninoff. Both of them are my fav composer. (even my fingers can't play chord-F on guitar!)

When I see Rachmaninoff works like his Tableaux etudes and Preludes, I become fear, wondering my small fingers can play his 'huge' chords not.
Not only that, I also not really good on black keys note, like B maj, E maj, Ab maj or Eb maj. I can play those notes, but not so fluently to play fast. My fingers usually hit the edge of black keys tuts while moving fast on arpeggio or chords.

All of them are because my small fingers or lack of techniques? Any advice or song that must I pick to learn?
I have no problem with Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert, Grieg, Debbusy, etc, but how about Chopin, Rachmaninoff, Liszt works?
(currently on 7th grade, near 8th grade)

[davidjosepha]

Well, firstly, most Rachmaninoff is grade 8 or higher, and many of Liszt and Chopin's well-known pieces are also up there, so don't feel too bad if you can't play them just yet.

Second, how old are you? If you're still a teenager, it's likely your hand will continue growing, and even if you don't, as you continue to play, your hand will stretch out more so you'll be able to reach larger intervals.

[wilsonl]

Well, firstly, most Rachmaninoff is grade 8 or higher, and many of Liszt and Chopin's well-known pieces are also up there, so don't feel too bad if you can't play them just yet.

Second, how old are you? If you're still a teenager, it's likely your hand will continue growing, and even if you don't, as you continue to play, your hand will stretch out more so you'll be able to reach larger intervals.

Ah yes, but I'm afraid my small fingers can't play their works.
I'm 19 years old. Yeah, I think my fingers have stretched, but still too short to play higher level songs.
What should I do?

[rachmaninoff_forever]

How wide is your hand span?

[danielekstrom]

I wouldn't be too stressed about that. That's a pretty common thing. In truth, most piece won't ask too too much of you and when they do, you can get around it. You may need to "roll" the chord if it's too big.

I'd say, if you can play Mozart or Debussy, you can probably tackle Chopin just fine. Chopin has a very diverse body of works, much which isn't extremely technically demanding (try a Mazurka?). Just do it. Stop thinking so much about. The only to overcome those problems you're having is to face them in the first place. If you're at a level 7, Chopin shouldn't be terrible for you. Rach will be a challenge, but you should be able to get through if you really work hard.

[wilsonl]

How wide is your hand span?

One octave + 1 key max.

[wilsonl]

I wouldn't be too stressed about that. That's a pretty common thing. In truth, most piece won't ask too too much of you and when they do, you can get around it. You may need to "roll" the chord if it's too big.

I'd say, if you can play Mozart or Debussy, you can probably tackle Chopin just fine. Chopin has a very diverse body of works, much which isn't extremely technically demanding (try a Mazurka?). Just do it. Stop thinking so much about. The only to overcome those problems you're having is to face them in the first place. If you're at a level 7, Chopin shouldn't be terrible for you. Rach will be a challenge, but you should be able to get through if you really work hard.

Wow thanks for the advices
My last work was on Debbusy Clair De Lune, and my fingers still can play the L.H. fluently, although it needs hard studying too.
As my preparation for 8th grade, my teacher will give me Chopin nocturne op.9 no.2. I hope I can play that piece, since the L.H. section is full with chord blocks.

But maybe I won't take Rach works until I mastered Chopin works.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

One octave + 1 key max.

You can manage. 

I was gonna type a paragraph but Danielekestrom took the words out of my fingertips.

[wilsonl]

You can manage. 

I was gonna type a paragraph but Danielekestrom took the words out of my fingertips.

But besides short fingers,  I also have fat fingers that make me difficult to play fast arpeggios and legatos among black keys. Any advice?

[davidjosepha]

But besides short fingers,  I also have fat fingers that make me difficult to play fast arpeggios and legatos among black keys. Any advice?

Please don't take offense to this, but in addition to fat fingers, are you also on the heavier side? Some people seem to just naturally have fat fingers, but I also know people who are pretty heavy and their fat fingers are a result of being overweight. If it's the latter, there's the obvious, but not so easy, solution of trying to lose weight. Depending on how how much you want to fix this, losing weight could help.

[wilsonl]

Please don't take offense to this, but in addition to fat fingers, are you also on the heavier side? Some people seem to just naturally have fat fingers, but I also know people who are pretty heavy and their fat fingers are a result of being overweight. If it's the latter, there's the obvious, but not so easy, solution of trying to lose weight. Depending on how how much you want to fix this, losing weight could help.

Yeah, it's okay, I'm overweight (also my dad and bro)
You means, I must take diet? Wth, that's more difficult that learning Chopin etudes... haha..
Is there any sport that can stretch my fingers? Since Lang Lang also overweight, but he still has 'piano fingers'.

It's funny when I do a intern piano concert with other students, all of them have long and piano fingers style, totally different with my fingers. Yeah I can play many songs, but must take harder studying than others. For ex, my fingers really difficult to reach top notes on Blue Danube waltz (until I must use more pedal to cover it).

[davidjosepha]

Yeah, it's okay, I'm overweight (also my dad and bro)
You means, I must take diet? Wth, that's more difficult that learning Chopin etudes... haha..
Is there any sport that can stretch my fingers? Since Lang Lang also overweight, but he still has 'piano fingers'.

It's funny when I do a intern piano concert with other students, all of them have long and piano fingers style, totally different with my fingers. Yeah I can play many songs, but must take harder studying than others. For ex, my fingers really difficult to reach top notes on Blue Danube waltz (until I must use more pedal to cover it).

I don't know for sure if losing weight would affect your fingers in any way. It could just be that your fingers are naturally a bit fatter. I'd guess that the majority of it is genetics, so losing weight might do very little, or nothing at all. Your fingers themselves aren't going to stretch any farther out, it's just the ligaments between them that will stretch out, and the only way to do that is to play more. I don't really know what to tell you as far as helping your fingers except that you should work on technique. I don't think the length of your 2 3 and 4 should matter that much in playing piano, it's mostly the length of your 1 and 5 that affect your playing, I think, since your hand span decides how large of chords you can play, but your hand span seems satisfactory. I think most pianists can reach at least a 10th, but a 9th shouldn't negatively affect your playing too much. Many female pianists can't even reach that and they do all right.

[rmbarbosa]

In the specific case of playing harps, you can reach much more amplitude easily.
In your photo, you are thinking in terms of diameter: you reach a nine. But the circle is bigger than the diameter. So, if you lift your wrist, making a <> 45º angle with your hand and the keyboard, you can "rotate" your fingers, i.e., your 5 fingers make a hemi-circle over the keyboard, you see? And this hemi-circle is <> 2x the nine. Try it because it works.
I must apologize for my English.
Best wishes
rui

[catherinezng]

My hands are also very small so I can relate(oct with 9th on edge). My hands have been stretched quite a bit compared to  before. I am playing chopin's sonata no 2 and most of the chords /stretches are fine  although with small hands its incredibily important to have a strong pinky so you can bring out the melodies that is so easy for bigger hands to play.

I thinkk it's incredibly important to relaxe an have a loose wrist during the big chords. Flattening your finger helps too but make sure you have good controlling.

[catherinezng]

Although small hands have their benefits too. They have better controlling, dexterity, and accuracy (relatively to same technique on larger hands)

[johnmar78]

Although small hands have their benefits too. They have better controlling, dexterity, and accuracy (relatively to same technique on larger hands)

me too, i have small hands too. mental relazation over your notes and muscles is the critical step for good playing. Without them you will face tensions in your forarm and palm.

[wilsonl]

I don't know for sure if losing weight would affect your fingers in any way. It could just be that your fingers are naturally a bit fatter. I'd guess that the majority of it is genetics, so losing weight might do very little, or nothing at all. Your fingers themselves aren't going to stretch any farther out, it's just the ligaments between them that will stretch out, and the only way to do that is to play more. I don't really know what to tell you as far as helping your fingers except that you should work on technique. I don't think the length of your 2 3 and 4 should matter that much in playing piano, it's mostly the length of your 1 and 5 that affect your playing, I think, since your hand span decides how large of chords you can play, but your hand span seems satisfactory. I think most pianists can reach at least a 10th, but a 9th shouldn't negatively affect your playing too much. Many female pianists can't even reach that and they do all right.

ow yeah, at least I don't need to diet. It's genetics problem at all, and my dad also has small fingers, and my bro too (he has studied guitar but lately surrender because lack of techniques from his small fingers)
Now I still doing your advice, practice every day (currently on interesting piece In the Hall of Mountain King by Grieg.), difficult enough on L.H. but I think I can make it 2 or 3 days again for a whole song.

Yeah, actually my hand can reach 10th (maximum stretch, uncomfortable position, so my avg is 8-9th). My friends also said that, my fingers are like women fingers, but with many many women pianist, small fingers also can dominate piano world.
Thanks for the advice!

[wilsonl]

In the specific case of playing harps, you can reach much more amplitude easily.
In your photo, you are thinking in terms of diameter: you reach a nine. But the circle is bigger than the diameter. So, if you lift your wrist, making a <> 45º angle with your hand and the keyboard, you can "rotate" your fingers, i.e., your 5 fingers make a hemi-circle over the keyboard, you see? And this hemi-circle is <> 2x the nine. Try it because it works.
I must apologize for my English.
Best wishes
rui

Wow, I have tried your advice and it works! (but still uncontrollable for speed playing) It seems I must studying more harder to control my fingers.
I tried it on Grieg's In the Hall of Mountain King, bar 42-49, and it works.
Thanks!

[wilsonl]

My hands are also very small so I can relate(oct with 9th on edge). My hands have been stretched quite a bit compared to  before. I am playing chopin's sonata no 2 and most of the chords /stretches are fine  although with small hands its incredibily important to have a strong pinky so you can bring out the melodies that is so easy for bigger hands to play.

I thinkk it's incredibly important to relaxe an have a loose wrist during the big chords. Flattening your finger helps too but make sure you have good controlling.

Finally the same fingers with me.
I have seen the sheetmusic of Chopin sonata no.2, and it's a bit challenging music, but very beautiful. Maybe most of R.H. notes can I played with my fingers, but rather difficult for L.H., but maybe I can make it nowadays.
I have tried your advice, and it also fix my problem. thanks! I think I will flat my fingers, but I still need to practice controlling my fingers.

[wilsonl]

Although small hands have their benefits too. They have better controlling, dexterity, and accuracy (relatively to same technique on larger hands)

Yes, Controlling my fingers on Bach works like Fugue and Clavier is easier than on bigger works from classical era, combined with right dynamic technique and precision it would be easy.

[chopin2015]

How small? Can you do octaves and 9ths?
The most I can reach is a 10th. I tought a 14 year old girl who could reach an 11th with her thumb and ring finger! (what a freak lol)

There is nothing repetition wont stretch/help lol

[wilsonl]

How small? Can you do octaves and 9ths?
The most I can reach is a 10th. I tought a 14 year old girl who could reach an 11th with her thumb and ring finger! (what a freak lol)

There is nothing repetition wont stretch/help lol

Yes, I can reach it.
I have uploaded my hand size at my reply on Rachmaninoff_forever post, see it.

Wow, she has really long fingers.

[fleetfingers]

Yeah, actually my hand can reach 10th (maximum stretch, uncomfortable position, so my avg is 8-9th).

From your picture, it does look like you can stretch further and reach another key. Don't shy away from 10ths, but instead find music that makes you reach that far. Even if it's not good/accurate enough to perform, it will be good exercise for stretching. Just like a gymnast doing the splits, you can stretch yourself to a point where it's not so uncomfortable anymore. Try doing "splits" on the front wooden edge of your piano - every day until your thumb and pinky are comfortably flush with the wood.