You will feel salty

[rachmaninoff_forever]

https://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/14/arts/music/yuja-wang-and-kirill-gerstein-lead-a-new-piano-generation.html?pagewanted=all

It's about how not so long ago, music like Prokofiev's 3rd, Liszt sonata, Rach's 3rd etc. were considered nearly impossible to play and musicality was valued over technique, but now these days you have 11 year olds playing petrouchka.  Now these days, everyone's a Cziffra?!  What the heck?!

[perprocrastinate]

What are you talking about? I already feel salty without knowing that.

These '11 year olds who can play Petrouchka' are probably prodigies, trained at an early age (of course, most likely combined with talent, then of course, there's the controversy about whether talent really exists or not, but I won't get into that). If you see a few, it doesn't mean the world is over saturated with them. Okay, there are probably thousands. But on a relative comparison, there are PROBABLY not even that many. A fraction of a percent of the population.

Just my guess. Don't feel bad for yourself.

[davidjosepha]

I think it's more likely that it's easier to have the virtuosos get exposure now because of mass media and the internet and whatnot, not that there actually are more of them now. And notice how most of these virtuosos will never be famous because they lack the even less common gift, musicianship.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

What are you talking about? I already feel salty without knowing that.

 If you see a few, it doesn't mean the world is over saturated with them. Okay, there are probably thousands. But on a relative comparison, there are PROBABLY not even that many. A fraction of a percent of the population.

Well compared to back then, there are WAY more supervirtuosos out there now.  I hear about these monsters all the time!  I even saw a guy play Chopin's thirds etude while talking on a cell phone what the heck?!  

[rachmaninoff_forever]

And notice how most of these virtuosos will never be famous because they lack the even less common gift, musicianship.

Yeah the article talks about that too.

[chadbrochill17]

yeah but these 12 year old kids playing these impossible pieces generally play them without any emotion. They may have the technique and the virtuosity, but the definitely do NOT have the musicality.

[perprocrastinate]

Well compared to back then, there are WAY more supervirtuosos out there now.  I hear about these monsters all the time!  I even saw a guy play Chopin's thirds etude while talking on a cell phone what the heck?!  

The world's population has risen since then. On a % comparison, has the number of virtuosos really risen?

[rachmaninoff_forever]

The world's population has risen since then. On a % comparison, has the number of virtuosos really risen?

irrespective of that, there's still more people at the top of the hill who will kick you in the face and throw you back in the pit...

But I would like to find that out.

[dechtenberg]

As the article rightly states, technical standards are rising because there are so many pianists hungry for the next gig. However, there are still lots of venues (and ensembles who employ soloists) where musicality is valued over technique. And when it comes to the extremely young prodigies, others have rightly pointed out that many youngsters can only achieve their musicality through imitation (mimicking teachers, recordings, etc.) rather than firsthand interpretation (they simply haven't lived enough).

That said, the other side of the coin is that young prodigies tend to attract audiences due to the "wow factor" of a new up-and-coming master playing Prokofiev, Rachmaninoff, etc. And at the end of the day, music isn't just an art - it's also a business, and orchestras who hire soloists have to sell tickets in order to stay in business. Hence the importance of the "wow factor."

In my humble opinion, the rest of us simply have to choose a different "factor" to focus on.

[outin]

Well compared to back then, there are WAY more supervirtuosos out there now.  I hear about these monsters all the time!  I even saw a guy play Chopin's thirds etude while talking on a cell phone what the heck?!  

Are you sure that there are WAY more? 20-30 years ago (yes, I do remember that time well) this was not even possible due to absence of cell phones

It is probable that the rise in living standards in many parts of the world has made is possible for more people to learn piano, which would mean that more players may get to this level. But also 20 years ago there was no general access to internet (yes, I remember THAT time too) and no-one would have even known about these people if they were not lucky enough to get a break somehow.

But maybe standards and teaching have also changed, young pianists are not expected to develope slowly and play it safe, but are indeed "allowed" to take on the demanding works, they are expected to do so and have more courage to do so.

To actually assess how much more supervirtuosos are out there would require actual research, it is not possible to answer this question just by evaluating what happens in youtube or naming a bunch of young pianists that can play anything.

[j_menz]

So? 100 years ago, the 100m WR was 10.5s That wouldn't win you a regional track meet these days. 1950, youngest chess Grandmaster was 26, now he's 12.  

Why should piano be any different?

Surely the world has room for any number of great versions of any and all of these difficult works?

And in any case, Mozart has been within the technical grasp of countless pianists for centuries, yet I don't feel we are overburdened with truly great interpretations.

[piano_vs_science]

Asians will be Asians...

[danhuyle]

I've seen 9 year olds playing Liszt concert etude in f minor among other virtuoso pieces as if they're beginner level music. That just blew me away.

Which category do you fall into?

1. Pianist who can play anything
2. Pianist having the technique to play the music they like

I fall into the 2nd.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

I've seen 9 year olds playing Liszt concert etude in f minor among other virtuoso pieces as if they're beginner level music. That just blew me away.

Which category do you fall into?

1. Pianist who can play anything
2. Pianist having the technique to play the music they like

I fall into the 2nd.

Well the people in category 1 also fall in category 2.

[m1469]

It's interesting to walk the halls of a music building where everybody is practicing by blowing through their pieces like they are competing, each person possessing bravado and secure/impressive technical ability.  No matter what age the player, you're hearing through the doors, and standing in the hall, and it somehow all starts to blend together and sounding the same.  One person catches this sound and tries to imitate it, and this sound gets passed from ear to ear, from room to room, from fingertip to fingertip.  In a room or a music building or a town or a country or a world full of supervirtuosos ... everybody playing and making all this sound ... how does anybody stand out?

[49410enrique]

Asians will be Asians...

[jesc]

heh, right now I know my place in piano with the amount of time I can dedicate to practice. I'm thankful that I have enough time to grow emotionally not to be intimidated by such.

I remember back in High School, there was this keyboard competition (electric organ and piano). The person who arranged the event had the bright idea  of inserting an exhibition by a young organist after certain batches of competitors. I can't forget how depressed a high school competitor was that he just walked to the stage with a "I don't give a &^%& anymore" attitude.

If there's one experience I can share that these kids would probably go through is that I was able to feel the difference when my age caught up with me at one point. I remember a time when people would exclaim when I play "wow! playing (such and such)... at that age?" (I wasn't even a freakin 11 year old prodigy, heck I don't consider myself a prodigy). Then age caught up and I realized that I had to put more effort into getting noticed.

I gave up trying to get noticed. That's over and done with. I just want to play the music.

[m1469]

Despite the fact that they are often treated otherwise, child prodigies are not new "inventions" who upon coming into contact with, in one way or another, there is a law which dictates that one's entire life and purpose should suddenly be reconsidered and re-routed because of it.  As musicians, as artists, yes, there are decisions that must be made and there are times to be thoughtful about which decisions to make.  As musicians, we either have something to say or we don't, and that doesn't fundamentally change when somebody else or somebody younger or somebody new makes a splash upon the scene; perhaps it can clarify, though.

When I talk about "standing out" I don't just mean or even necessarily mean at all about "getting noticed."  There are plenty of ways to do that.  What I mean is, where does somebody's unique artistry lay, what makes somebody an individual?  Eventually child prodigies grow up, eventually they don't have the same kind of push from others that surrounded their progress growing up, and even they face the fact that there are child prodigies in the world, and that they must make mature, artistic decisions.

[thorn]

I've seen 9 year olds playing Liszt concert etude in f minor among other virtuoso pieces as if they're beginner level music. That just blew me away.

Which category do you fall into?

1. Pianist who can play anything
2. Pianist having the technique to play the music they like

I fall into the 2nd.

To be honest, I think the distinction between these categories works both ways.

Category 1 = can play stuff that is really difficult. That doesn't mean they have taste, it just means they play the token virtuosic pieces. They may not like/dislike them, they may just run them off the same way that someone proficient in English is capable of reading a linguistically complex passage aloud in class.

Category 2= has developed sufficient technique to cope with the demands of the repertoire they enjoy. In the professional world, these are the pianists who tend to specialize in specific (but not limited in number) composers. Perhaps a vague definition because you do get those who really do play bits and pieces of everything extraordinarily well.

That is how it is to me anyway. I think some of these prodigies really have acquired musical ability in the same way people acquire their mother tongue. I think it's an amazing phenomenon and I have a huge interest in the process and how such things are possible- the human brain is truly amazing. HOWEVER, if playing the piano is nothing more to them than the gift of language is to the rest of the world, then do they really enjoy what it is they are doing? The difference to me is akin to the person brought up bilingual in say English and Chinese and the native English speaker who chooses to learn Chinese because they are passionate about Chinese culture and people.

That ended up a bit long... I hope what I have said makes sense, even if nobody agrees >.<

[jesc]

BTW, my post is based on experience, it was straight up from memory lane. I just want to note that any perceived connection it has with the other replies is just coincidence. Of course if anyone disagrees with it, expressing their POV is entirely acceptable and I will just sit back and let it slide as always.

I'm a bit jaded and just want readers to take my post as it is. You can even take it as shallow as possible, remember the context, we were highschool students back then in a competition. There were no career decisions there and no one I knew seriously contemplated being a career musician including me lol (perhaps with the exception of the exhibitionist).

Just take the post/experience as it is nothing more.

[piano_vs_science]

lol i saw him at a chinese restaurant