Need Some Help Growing Playing Capability

[kittysoftpaws]

Dear PianoStreet Forum Members,

This is my first time posting here, so please bear with me. I joined this community to ask this question and see if I could gather some useful ideas. Thank you for checking out my topic, if you have some advice, I would love to hear it  

I've been playing the piano for about three years now. I'm very embarrassed of my progress, seeing that I haven't come a long ways. Some of the stuff I have learned has been:

Minor Chords
Major Chords
Basic Songs (like Favorite Things, Bach's Minute, Let It Snow, etc.)

I guess the part that I'm most ashamed of, is that I can't really play with two hands. I did learn how to do chords with my left hand while I was playing the melody with my right hand for the folk song, Clementine, but it didn't sound very smooth. I love listening to music, but I have trouble playing-by-ear.

I would like to be able to play some longer and faster songs. I also want to be able to play with both hands. Honestly, I don't know where to start. I watched some videos on Youtube of people's whose hands fly across the keyboard and I wish I could do the same. I know it will take a lot of practice, and I'm willing to spend the time, but I would appreciate some pointers on where to begin.

Also, keep in mind that I haven't had a piano teacher, but have been learning by myself due to a tight budget.

I thought about posting this question on Yahoo! Answers or the like, but realized that I would most likely get a much more thorough and helpful answer on a dedicated forum such as this.

Thank you for reading this, I'm looking forward to your help and advice . . .

[m1469]

Start small, get some success going to create momentum, add more bit by bit and never lose sight of your goals. 

[perprocrastinate]

Do you aim to only play contemporary music/pop songs, etc?

Or do you aim to learn what is generally classified as "classical music"?

[kittysoftpaws]

Thank you for the responses!

Although I would like to play classical someday,
my current goal is contemporary/techno/pop songs.

[perprocrastinate]

Thank you for the responses!

Although I would like to play classical someday,
my current goal is contemporary/techno/pop songs.

Even though most modern stuff doesn't require too much technique, it's important to make sure to learn non-injurous and effective playing habits. I sort of learned that the hard way.

These links may help you (they did do me a service).

https://www.pianofundamentals.com/

https://www.webdepot.umontreal.ca/Usagers/belkina/MonDepotPublic/Piano/PianoTechnique.html

https://teoria.com/

(one of the few online piano "lessons" I actually found useful)

https://www.seymourfink.com/ (Reading this now, as I am self taught, and books like these are really invaluable)

--
I am also relatively "new" to learning piano, and feel incompetent compared to many others, but to restate what m1469 said, stay dedicated; you will go a long way.

And by the way, if you ever decide to play classical, don't be an idiot like me and skip to the Romantic Era composers. "lololololol I'm going to learn a Chopin Etude in my first year" Disappointment will ensue.

*cough*start out with Bach*cough*

[kittysoftpaws]

Perprocrastinate,

Thanks for your help. It's nice to know that not everyone on here are perfect musicians.

I haven't got a chance to look at your links in depth, but I've already bookmarked them and will go check them out soon.

[ajspiano]

Perprocrastinate,

Thanks for your help. It's nice to know that not everyone on here are perfect musicians.

I haven't got a chance to look at your links in depth, but I've already bookmarked them and will go check them out soon.

No one is a perfect musician.

In addition to the references provided already, here is a bunch of threads that might provide a few small insights into hands together..  you will have to read and think and actively test the content. ...(i feel like a little bit of a bernhard advocate these last few days... but really, i swear I'd write the same stuff almost exactly, though probably in a less clear and concise fashion :/ )

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,1651.msg14344.html#msg14344
https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,2173.msg18976.html#msg18976
https://pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,2802.msg24467.html#msg24467
https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,3085.msg27140.html#msg27140

and some stuff on aquiring technique/learning a difficult passage hands separate..

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=2449.0

[j_menz]

You might also consider getting hold of one of the basic piano course books (someone help me out with good ones here).  They will give you a bit of structure around the pieces you do and would be a good supplement (not a replacement) to the stuff you are already doing, particularly in terms of getting the hands to work together.

[perprocrastinate]

AJ (you don't mind if I call you that, do you?), that reminds me.

One of bernhard's posts containing a whole bunch of his detailed posts. I forgot I had it bookmarked.

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,4105.msg37603.html#msg37603

[ajspiano]

AJ (you don't mind if I call you that, do you?), that reminds me.

One of bernhard's posts containing a whole bunch of his detailed posts. I forgot I had it bookmarked.

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,4105.msg37603.html#msg37603

No i dont mind..

I don't mean to outshine you..  but if we're going to go the whole way...   

https://www.mediafire.com/?bb74g8x86dk80ao

I haven't actually tested all the links..  hope it all works - this should keep everyone occupied for, i don't know..  8 years. atleast.

[perprocrastinate]

I don't mean to outshine you..  but if we're going to go the whole way...   

Damn. That is A LOT of bernhard.

Heh. To be honest, I don't really feel "valid" giving help on this forum, but I do the best I can.

[kittysoftpaws]

Wow! I can't check all these links out fast enough.

[hfmadopter]

Wow! I can't check all these links out fast enough.

No need to be embarrassed, the good news you recognize the weakness and can now address it. Start with very slow passages putting the two hands together, one bar at a time even partial bars at a time. I'm sure one of the many links provided will mention this.

You want this, it will come to you with dedicated work.
David

[kittysoftpaws]

In one of the forum links I checked out, several people suggested using Bach for hand independance. Should I practice Bach first? If yes, do you have any specific pieces you recommend?

[hfmadopter]

In one of the forum links I checked out, several people suggested using Bach for hand independence. Should I practice Bach first? If yes, do you have any specific pieces you recommend?

Bach just about always bolsters up the foundation. Depending on the level of Bach it can give voicing a work out in both hands. Just about any Bach will help rhythm and counter point between the two hands. Most people, myself included, will suggest Bach Two Part Inventions as a good work out for people to start off with and remains a good reference to drop back to later on as well. In your case I think the Two Part Inventions are a good goal, you have some simpler work to grasp first which you can do with the easier pieces you already are working on, then move to the inventions yes.

 You need to work agonizingly slowly on one simple phrase at a time to put  your two hands together on easy pieces first. And probably later with more complicated pieces. My teacher used to force this issue with me and I went right to level 8+ work in doing it just that way. You need to break the phrases down and start playing with both hands. Going very slowly you will find all your weak spots. Often people want to hear the melody and they get stuck on making that melody shine before they even have the bass note down, after all that is the music. Don't worry about the melody at the offset of a new piece or one that needs work to get your hands together. Once you get it up and running, then you can work on dynamics.

It's going to take some time but you can do this. You have a goal, stick with it ! One morning you will get up and be playing with both hands.

[ajspiano]

Based on your original post you can perhaps consider doing a few of the other Anna Magdalena/ childrens bach pieces before you try inventions. The minuet comes from that series of pieces - there are a few other minuets, a well as a bunch of others like the musette.

[lostinidlewonder]

Some ideas: You need to have a good understanding as to what pieces are easy, normal, challenging for you to play at the piano. Predominantly learn pieces that are at your level, sometimes challenge yourself with difficult pieces and give yourself a break with easier ones but they should not become the focus of your study. This seems easy enough but often we can fall into situations where "We don't know that we don't know". You might underestimate/overestimate a piece and this causes inefficiency to your learning. If you do this process correctly then your level of easy, normal and challenging will raise, if you are not then it stays at the same level or improves very slowly. Many people hit "plateaus" with regards to the rate of this improvement and a good tutor can help you push through these if you cannot solve it yourself.

How can you measure the difficulty of a piece if you do not have the capability to play through the piece straight away (perhaps not perfectly sight read but at least being able to hear what it should mostly sound like)?  Sight reading is a commanding force that helps us learn the piano at a more efficient rate. If you are caught practicing bar by bar, memorizing everything and neglecting your sight reading you NEVER react your potential in piano. Memorizing bar by bar is of course a perfectly fine process to go through when you just start out learning the piano but improving upon your practice methodology is what you want to aim for if you want to really improve.

You need to work smarter, not harder or with brute force. Some lesser practice methods a student may repeat a passage continuously until it feels right, whether that is 50 or 100+ times. More advanced methods would sight read through the entire pieces continuously and over time multiple instances are solved, problems which do not improve then can be focused upon with various tools. Lesser methods treat learning pieces like a beginner at a jigsaw puzzle trying to fit one piece at a time, where the more advanced methods will outline parts of the puzzle which are more obvious and work around those.

Beginners often do not have much experience to draw upon, learning the piano at a high level requires that you draw from a lot of experience. An experienced pianist will find very little unique or unusual movements when learning a new piece because they can draw from many pieces they have learned in the past. When you sight read you can see the entire language and you are not really caught up looking at individual details often at all.

[hfmadopter]

Based on your original post you can perhaps consider doing a few of the other Anna Magdalena/ childrens bach pieces before you try inventions. The minuet comes from that series of pieces - there are a few other minuets, a well as a bunch of others like the musette.

In deed ! And there is also the Small Prelude in C Maj ( that's the actual name: Small Prelude) which gives a nice flavored Bach rendition, easier touch of what you might find with Bach material in the inventions or larger Preludes and it occupies a decent piece of keyboard real estate for the beginner to  ponder. An intro if you will, to larger works complete with a little series of Mordents in the base line ( a refreshing break from the expected treble mordents and trills). Truely Bach , this feels a bit grown up if you will..

[danhuyle]

I've seen 9 year olds play Liszt Concert Etude No2 in Fminor from the set of 3 concert etudes in 2 years or less.

If you saw any videos of me playing piano, I'm failing most of the time. I admit they're not up to recording standard, but guess what? Do you know any pianist who doesn't go through that process?

If you really want to advance in piano, you should interact with other pianists who can help you get you from where you are to where you want to be.

How bad do you want to grow your playing capability? Start interacting with other pianists and follow them. Ask questions on what you need help with. I know I can help you out.

Or the other alternative is go study for a music degree and pay thousands of dollars in piano lessons like I did. That's what most pianists recommend.

[kittysoftpaws]

Okay! I found some sheet music for Musette in D Major, so I'll start with that. I'll work on the first bar or two this week.

If you are caught practicing bar by bar, memorizing everything and neglecting your sight reading you NEVER react your potential in piano. Memorizing bar by bar is of course a perfectly fine process to go through when you just start out learning the piano but improving upon your practice methodology is what you want to aim for if you want to really improve.

That especially interested me, because that's how I've been playing, but I'll work on reading it more fluently.

BTW, if any of you can refer me to another site/thread that gives some tips on sight-reading faster, that would be cool. I learned some mnemonics to help memorize the notes on the treble staff, but it still takes me a second to remember which note is which. The only ones I don't have a lot of trouble with is the spaces on the treble staff because ascending, they spell F-A-C-E

[kittysoftpaws]

How would you rate Pachebel's Canon?
Is it a good piece for beginners?

[hfmadopter]

How would you rate Pachelbel's Canon?
Is it a good piece for beginners?

That particular version is level 2. It has a bit of rhythm going on which feels like it's increasing speed as you progress through the piece. If you can count you can conquer it. Do some Bach that will help you prepare.
David