I'm at a dilemma here

[mazer]

Hello,
so I've been considering learning the piano quite a long time now, but only got to it just recently. I thought it would be really beneficial if I learned all the pieces by ear. But now, after my the first piece, I feel like it's too much. I've also been playing the guitar for 4 years and the bass guitar for 1,5 years. I try to learn all my bass lines by ear, which isn't that hard and I thought, why not do the same with piano. As it turned out, my aural skills are still at quite the low level. With sight reading, I'd have free will. I'd like to be a great musician someday, hopefully a jazz pianist and learning by ear seems the right way for this. I feel like learning by sight-reading is of much less benefit than learning by ear. What do you think? I'm starting to lean toward sight-reading, considering the fact that I'm a beginner self-taught pianist, I might just be overestimating my skills here.

And how would comment the access to sheet music in Internet? And maybe if you knew some good resource for sight-reading for the piano, it wouldn't hurt tossing it here, preferably in book form.

Thanks in advance!

[carleybach]

Hi, I wish I could be of some help, but II really can't.  I am sharing similar frustrations, as I have been attempting (when not working or going to college at night and week-ends) to learn the piano for 10 years.  I've had lessons off and on, but never able to complete more than 10 months to a year.  So I am a low intermediate after 10 years.

I too thought piano would be easy as I loved watching other people play and felt I had a good "ear" for it.  However, that didn't work for me.  My improvising skills are in the pits with the exception of 3- or 4-note chords on the left, and 1 or 2 fingers on the right.  My sight reading is very, very slow.  I am at my wits' end.  Something I've always felt I had the talent for, turns out to be more difficult than I had anticipated.  But I am still trying and hoping one day! 

Sorry I couldn't be of any help, just wanted to let you know that you are not alone.  It isn't easy learning the piano.  Jazz piano is even more difficult as it seems to best if you have a good "ear" for it and sight reading is important.  Some very talented people get by with just having that natural feel and ear for it.

careybach

[teosoleil]

Hello,
so I've been considering learning the piano quite a long time now, but only got to it just recently. I thought it would be really beneficial if I learned all the pieces by ear. But now, after my the first piece, I feel like it's too much. I've also been playing the guitar for 4 years and the bass guitar for 1,5 years. I try to learn all my bass lines by ear, which isn't that hard and I thought, why not do the same with piano. As it turned out, my aural skills are still at quite the low level. With sight reading, I'd have free will. I'd like to be a great musician someday, hopefully a jazz pianist and learning by ear seems the right way for this. I feel like learning by sight-reading is of much less benefit than learning by ear. What do you think? I'm starting to lean toward sight-reading, considering the fact that I'm a beginner self-taught pianist, I might just be overestimating my skills here.

And how would comment the access to sheet music in Internet? And maybe if you knew some good resource for sight-reading for the piano, it wouldn't hurt tossing it here, preferably in book form.

Thanks in advance!

Why just pick one? IMO, it's a disadvantage to just choose ONE as your only method. Good musicians are well-rounded. Study every subject you can. Jazz is also steeped deep in theory, the same as classical music. Theory, aural skills, sight-reading, etc... you shouldn't just choose one route to become good. My advise: get yourself a well-trained teacher with a degree from a good conservatory or university and talk to him or her with it. I'm not saying that it's harder to be self-taught (usually it is), but it's going to be better in the long run with guidance.

Good luck to you both!

[mazer]

My plan was to first read as much as I can, about posture technique and everything and once I've learned a couple of pieces, I'd play them to an experienced pianist friend of mine, who would check my technique and maybe give some tips. I've been thinking about the best way of learning in my circumstances, and thought that I should start with sight-reading and gradually start learning by ear as well. But should I get any guidance regarding sight-reading? I know how the system works, so should I just pick a piece and try and start playing?

[lloyd_cdb]

But should I get any guidance regarding sight-reading? I know how the system works, so should I just pick a piece and try and start playing?

My younger brother never played growing up as I did, and recently tried picking up piano.  I've been working with him and have found this book/series to be extremely useful in quickly picking up sight reading (he has some musical background, about the same as you).

https://www.amazon.com/John-Thompsons-Modern-Course-Piano/dp/0877180059/ref=cm_lmf_tit_5

Here is a site for piano repertoire by grade:

https://www.pianoworld.com/Uploads/files/Graded_Pieces_Sorted_By_Difficulty.PDF

And here is a site you can download any of those pieces:

https://www.imslp.org/

One thing to keep in mind is that everyone learns differently.  If you can learn by ear, feel free.  I sure as hell can't 

[corecase]

The problem (or difference) with piano is that it takes years of practice to really get your hands/fingers to get used to the feel of the piano; over time, you develop stronger muscles in your hands that help you play more technically difficult pieces.  The best way to improve your piano "skills" (IMHO) is by playing classical music, because there are so many different styles and techniques in it -- you want to get used to playing different style pieces.  It would be EXTREMELY difficult to learn complicated classical pieces by ear...  if you can learn classical music by ear then you really don't need advice from anyone on this forum.    Getting to the point, I suggest you really try to learn classical pieces by actually reading the notes; eventually you will be experienced enough to be able to do complex jazz improvisations and even learn jazz music by sight-reading too.  Good luck! 

[ajspiano]

https://www.wenatcheemusic.com/phocadownload/Super_Sight_Reading_Secrets.pdf

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First time I learnt complex piano music by ear I had to digitally break it into segments only a few seconds long and reduce its speed by as much as 80% in order to correctly identify all the notes. This can be done with any recording software.. and as you get better becomes largely unnecessary.

I suggest you get familiar with playing pieces through reading before you try to do anything complex by ear. Its not that you can't just dive into ear playing, - but it is enormously easier if you can immediately play what you hear, rather than have to learn the technical side of it as well.

Its not really that different from written/spoken language. By ear you will have conversations using language that you can handle. Expand your vocabulary by reading more advanced texts.

[mazer]

I've left learning by ear behind for now and I'm concentrating on learning to sight-read. I still have a few beginner questions. Does the concept of changing positions as little as possible apply to piano playing as well, like in guitar playing, meaning I should move my fingers more than my arms? The right hand little finger gets tired quite quickly, is it just a matter of practice for it to away, and now that I think about it, I'm using every other finger in guitar playing, maybe it just isn't strong enough yet. And the last one about sight-reading. Currently I'd like to memorize all the pieces I play, and thus I look at the sheet music, I play one bar and I try to remember it. This isn't probably the best way to learn sight-reading, so should I concentrate more on the reading rather than memorizing?
Thanks!

[outin]

Does the concept of changing positions as little as possible apply to piano playing as well, like in guitar playing, meaning I should move my fingers more than my arms?

If you mean what I think you mean, then no, since doing too much streching to get to notes is not good either. This is what I tend to do because I worry too much about hitting the wrong notes when changing positions. You are supposed to change the hand position when necessary, but when not, keep the hand still and play with your fingers. Maybe it was this that you meant?

[mazer]

Yes, I think you answered it. So, the concept is to do as much as possible in one position without stretching too much, right?

[outin]

Yes, as my teacher often puts it, it's all about economy of movements.

[lloyd_cdb]

The right hand little finger gets tired quite quickly, is it just a matter of practice for it to away, and now that I think about it, I'm using every other finger in guitar playing, maybe it just isn't strong enough yet.

Flip your guitar over and start learning lefty In seriousness, try not to focus on strengthening your pinky as that can lead to over practice and injury.  Regular practice will strengthen it over time more naturally.

And the last one about sight-reading. Currently I'd like to memorize all the pieces I play, and thus I look at the sheet music, I play one bar and I try to remember it. This isn't probably the best way to learn sight-reading, so should I concentrate more on the reading rather than memorizing?
Thanks!

Everyday I go back and play pieces from several levels below the ones I'm working on.  It helps me learn advanced pieces more quickly since you don't have to look at the page and then look at your fingers.  From my experience, people tend to develop sight reading and visual memory slower than they do physical memory.  When I'm practicing I'll sometimes zone out and think about what I'm going to cook for dinner. 5 minutes later, I finished playing the piece since my hands knew where to go one note after the next.  If I try to practice a specific phrase in the middle, it takes me longer to figure out where my fingers need to go.  Convoluted moral of the story, focus on sight reading.  Even if you are bumping the wrong notes, it will improve your ability to look ahead in the piece and know whats coming up.  It's like normal reading:

You
Don't
Want
To
Sound
Like
You're
Figuring
Out
Each
Word
When
You
Get
To
Them

*DISCLAIMER: I don't encourage zoning out during practice  *