Am I technically ready to learn Ravel's Jeux d'eau?

[maestrowoojulee]

I've been playing piano for more than 10 years and studied with several teachers (although they were all terrible until 8th grade). The teacher that I'm working with right now is pretty strict; she demands many hours of practicing and perfection for all the music I learn, including Czernies and scales. She's picky about EVERY SINGLE NOTES in a piece.

 If one has such stern teacher like mine, he has to be cautious when he suggests a new piece to work on. So before asking her if I can start on Jeux d'eau by Ravel, I want to ask you guys if I'm ready for such masterpiece. Thanks.

Studied:
- Several Beethoven Sonatas including "Patheque" and "The Tempest"
- Chopin Etudes Op. 10 no. 1 and Op. 25 no. 1
- Schubert Impromptu Op 90. No. 2
- Poulenc Toccata
- Rachmaninoff Polichinelle
- Rachmaninoff C# Minor Prelude
- Scriabin Etude in D# minor
- Mozart Sonatas

Working on:
- Beethoven Concerto no. 2
- Liszt Au Bord d'une Source
- Menotti Ricercare and Toccata
- Beethoven Sonata op. 10 no. 3

[werq34ac]

It would be a stretch but it's definitely possible. It's considered one of Ravel's less difficult works but it's still a challenge. It's really awkward in certain spots. But I think it's worth asking your teacher.

[maestrowoojulee]

It would be a stretch but it's definitely possible. It's considered one of Ravel's less difficult works but it's still a challenge. It's really awkward in certain spots. But I think it's worth asking your teacher.

Haha yes! Thank You! Last time I asked her if I can do Gaspard de la Nuit, and her response was a resounding "no" lol. Hopely this time she would let me work on a piece that I'm actually interested in.

[scherzo123]

Haha yes! Thank You! Last time I asked her if I can do Gaspard de la Nuit, and her response was a resounding "no" lol. Hopely this time she would let me work on a piece that I'm actually interested in.

Hard to say, why won't you ask your teacher? 

[maestrowoojulee]

Hard to say, why won't you ask your teacher? 

I don't want to be scolded for bluntly mentioning a ridiculously difficult piece

[scherzo123]

I don't want to be scolded for bluntly mentioning a ridiculously difficult piece

good point

[chopin2015]

Hmm. I think skill wise, yes, but this is a different type of harmonies. Also, when I looked at it, I HATED the way it made my hands stretch. I can reach a 10th, tops. If your hands are smaller than this then, good luck! if your hands are bigger, then you will have a easier time learning this. Also, I always recommend everyone to look at Ravel's Valse Nobles collection as an intro.

Let us know how it goes!

[maestrowoojulee]

Lol instead of agreeing on Jeux d'eau, she suggested working on Ravel Soniatine or Dubussy Pour la Piani first...rarely does she go along with my suggestion. Oh well...

[davidjosepha]

Lol instead of agreeing on Jeux d'eau, she suggested working on Ravel Soniatine or Dubussy Pour la Piani first...rarely does she go along with my suggestion. Oh well...

Well really impress her with how quickly you learn whichever of those you choose and how well you play it and then you might get to learn Jeux d'eau for your next piece

[chopin2015]

I would secretly work on Jeux Deau behind her back. But to successfully do this, you will also have to work on the pieces she suggested(you work on her suggestions first). Take a couple bars of Jeux Deau a day as a reward for good work on other pieces.

-J

[maestrowoojulee]

Well really impress her with how quickly you learn whichever of those you choose and how well you play it and then you might get to learn Jeux d'eau for your next piece

Haha definitly. But I know i'm gonna play these for competitions, so might as well try to like either one of pieces she suggested.

[maestrowoojulee]

I would secretly work on Jeux Deau behind her back. But to successfully do this, you will also have to work on the pieces she suggested(you work on her suggestions first). Take a couple bars of Jeux Deau a day as a reward for good work on other pieces.

-J

Haha maybe..tried to do that forChopin Winterwind and gave up on the 3rd page lol. THANKS.

[nanabush]

The Winterwind isn't as bad as it's made out to be.  If you practice 5-2-4-1 broken chord technique  ascending and descending, then you've laid the groundwork for about 75% of the piece (the left hand fast passages, and the odd ones where the right hand broke a pattern were the toughest parts).

But ya... I remember trying to play this piece at least once a year for the past 6 or 7 years, and being like "how the hell do you play 8 pages of this" haha.  Coming back to it now, and ACTUALLY looking at the fingering, it's the same damn thing (with loads of repetition!!)  for 8 pages 

[chopin2015]

It actually repeats only twice. It has large leaps and is to be taken a little more seriously.

[nanabush]

I know it has to be taken seriously, but a huge reaction I see is "omg so many notes in this piece! so fast! therefore it's difficult!".  What I'm saying is that people find this piece hard for a silly reason.  If someone is saying "it's so fast how do you play that", then they likely haven't even acknowledged the fingering and probably won't make it past measure 10 of the piece.  But if you sit and realize "ok, I've got to work out the right hand.  Oh look, there is a definite pattern", and then you work through the piece, it clicks nicely.

The leaps are obviously a technical aspect, but it's common at this level of repertoire... the fingering pattern for the right hand is [extremely] repetitive.  I know the a minor theme only repeats a couple of time, but it's quite lengthy, and the piece is only 8 pages... the interludes are the toughest spots either because coordinating the leaps is tricky, or because it introduces a new fingering difficulty (again, for example, the left hand passagework on the fourth page).

[chopin2015]

You forgot the part where most of the piece is in octaves which is hard for small hands. And lots of notes fast with musicality is the hardest thing to do in music. Perhaps your skill level may leave you convinced that this piece is less than difficult, but I beg to differ! BTW forget Avdeeva, Richter is the man!!! I love this! The most terrifying Winter wind etude ever!

[nanabush]

Richter's is awesome!

I'm not disagreeing with you  I'm not saying the piece is less-than-difficult.  I'm saying that if you have the chops to wiggle out the 5-2-4-1, and you *recognize this pattern in the piece, you'll have an easier time than the group of people who haven't seen that technique prior.  In my case, broken alternating chords were a requirement with RCM exams, and when I started this piece recently, I was able to apply that fingering.

I did Op 10 #4 last year, and found that MUCH more difficult than the Winterwind.  I have large hands, and nothing is worse than having to cram your fingers in a small position and articulate fast and clean.  That piece for me has a larger variety of fast passagework; what I found with this was that in some cases there would be total brand new material, harmonically/melodically/technically, abruptly in the piece.  So I found that jumping around from section to section was more tricky than a constant right hand in Winterwind. 

This is from my experience, but I'm still saying that Winterwind is technically very concise!  If it's a grade 7 student I'm trying to convince, then they shouldn't even be looking at that piece.  But if you are at a level to play some Chopin etudes, this piece should be accessible...

[49410enrique]

just answering based on my impression of the piece and how i'd want to prepare.

I would want to be able to handle and perform the Liszt -jeux d'eaux à la Villa d'Este before moving on to the ravel

or also maybe Grifes The Fountains of the Acqua Paola  in some combination with a Ravel work:

hope my reasoning makes sense, i'd like to play it someday myself but will most likely exercise one of the two options (or both) before ponying up the big Ravel.

[scherzo123]

I would want to be able to handle and perform the Liszt -jeux d'eaux à la Villa d'Este before moving on to the ravel

OOOHHH...I love the jeux d'eaux by Liszt

[werq34ac]

just answering based on my impression of the piece and how i'd want to prepare.

I would want to be able to handle and perform the Liszt -jeux d'eaux à la Villa d'Este before moving on to the ravel



or also maybe Grifes The Fountains of the Acqua Paola  in some combination with a Ravel work:


hope my reasoning makes sense, i'd like to play it someday myself but will most likely exercise one of the two options (or both) before ponying up the big Ravel.

Really? I found the Liszt Jeux d'eau MUCH more difficult than the Ravel Jeux D'eau. Control is an ab solute monster in the Liszt while it comes slightly more naturally in the Ravel.

[49410enrique]

Really? I found the Liszt Jeux d'eau MUCH more difficult than the Ravel Jeux D'eau. Control is an ab solute monster in the Liszt while it comes slightly more naturally in the Ravel.

hmm..  good to know, thank you!

[chopin2015]

This is from my experience, but I'm still saying that Winterwind is technically very concise!  If it's a grade 7 student I'm trying to convince, then they shouldn't even be looking at that piece.  But if you are at a level to play some Chopin etudes, this piece should be accessible...

I mean, the hardest pieces I've ever played would be Chopin Ballade no 1 and finishing Scherzo no 1 so i really do not know what grade that makes me, I am auditioning for a music school in November(I am 20 years old).  Winter wind was hard enough, but you are right. It goes very quickly if you know how to handle it. I think I would have a very tough time memorizing some of the op 10 etudes because I am especially scared of how some of them are laid out and Tristesse etude. I am looking at starting some Prokofiev tomorrow. I say tomorrow because I tried to sight read Reminiscences and it was confusing. (Not as familiar with Post-Romantic works, only know a bit of Ravel and Debussy)  Also, I listened to Toccata and it scared the guts out of me.

[maestrowoojulee]

Hey guys just a quick question. Which piece will be technically harder: Prelude of Debussy Pour le Piano or Ravel Sonatine 1st mvt? And which one would prepare me better for J'eux D'eau? Also thinking about doing something out of Bach Preludes and fugues(for the first time) Any suggestions?

[maestrowoojulee]

The Winterwind isn't as bad as it's made out to be.  If you practice 5-2-4-1 broken chord technique  ascending and descending, then you've laid the groundwork for about 75% of the piece (the left hand fast passages, and the odd ones where the right hand broke a pattern were the toughest parts).

But ya... I remember trying to play this piece at least once a year for the past 6 or 7 years, and being like "how the hell do you play 8 pages of this" haha.  Coming back to it now, and ACTUALLY looking at the fingering, it's the same damn thing (with loads of repetition!!)  for 8 pages 

I see...maybe I should get back to it some day Only thing is that I struggle a lot more in the arpeggio section than the broken chords. The fingering bothers me, especially crossing from 1 to 5 in some parts. Perhaps practicing double thirds have improved my fingering dexterity and lightness. Anyway my teacher would probably say I should learn some more etudes to get into this one lol! Thanks for commenting.