Awaiting the day I'll finally own a piano

[lostinarea51]

Hello, I'm new to the forum and I felt I needed to share how frustrating it is for a piano student that doesn't have a piano and to get any advice or support on my current situation.
 Let me start with some background details.

I have been playing piano for nearly eight years now. I'm currently preparing for my last grade before my certificate examination (so 2 exams left).
I'm 17 years old at the moment. Piano lessons for me cost in the region of $600 a year + exam fees. I do quite well at school and my exam results are good. I'm not a troublesome teen, I don't go out spending money on booze every Friday night.

Did a sort of timeline below as it was the easiest way to spread out what's happened and so you can get the best idea as to how many of times we could of afforded a piano. I know how my parents spend their money is their choice and that they can't always give into my demands, but just try and imagine yourself in my place; I could be a fantastic pianist, but I'm just mediocre because I dont have a piano.

Late 2004
 Started piano lessons. Used a very old and damaged keyboard. With some minor saving, we could of had  enough money to buy a Steinway. We were constantly taking hotel breaks, taking holidays, expensive lunches every Sunday. We also bought two new cars around then.

2005 - upgraded (or downgraded, I can't remember!) to a crappy 66 keyed non weighted Casio keyboard that cost $100.  Still had loads of money. Still no piano.

2006-2008
Still doing well in piano exams. This however did still not make my parents buy a piano. Just ignored the problem. We still had money because this was pre-recession/economic collapse times.  Piano teacher told mum and me it was time to invest in a piano. Notice how my piano teacher said 'invest'?

2009-2011 (effects of recession start to sink in)
constantly annoying my parents to buy a piano. Mum kept promising that we would get one. Dad eventually told me one day when I asked him that we weren't getting one. These years were during the recesson remember so money was the excuse used. Dad was on a paycut but Mum started to work a few hours a week. Yet we still had money for holidays costing $4000+, although the extravagant Sunday lunches stopped completely. I found piano lessons extremely difficult. 30 minutes spent on a piano would be more beneficial than three hours on my keyboard. Me and my two sisters had to stop a few extra ciricular activities to help offset the increased taxes and rising oil, electricity prices etc.

2012 - a lot has happened this year.
January - mum wins a reasonably large sum of money and a holiday for two people to somewhere in the world I won't say so I can't be identified. I was ready to buy a stage piano that week but held off due to the large win and mum promising she would buy me a proper piano. About a month later the cheque arrives. There can absolutely be no excuses now why we can't buy a piano, right? Think again. The holiday was booked along with three extra seats for me and my two sisters which we went in last month (July). We also booked a second, week long, holiday for October.

I had a complete breakdown one week in March. Why? My mum had the money. She promised she would buy a piano. I had spent some of the money that I saved because I thought mum was buying a piano. And my piano exam was in two months and we still had that crappy keyboard.  It took me four hours those nights trying to get to sleep. I eventually went to my mum, ready to burst out. After a bit of arguing because mum kept avoiding answering my questions, I  discovered that my mum wasn't what was holding us from getting a piano, it was my dad. I was stunned when mum said this. She had wanted to buy a piano, dad wouldn't allow it. And that large sum of money that we won, it was mums.

I went to my piano teacher who was very understanding. She had told me to buy a piano ages ago. I told her we hadn't got one and that my parents aren't going to buy one and that I'll  hopefully get it sorted over the summer. She very kindly let me use the piano in her house to practise for two hours a week for the weeks leading up to the exam. The practising there greatly helped and my piano teacher saw a difference in my playing. I had my exam last month and I did quite well and was much more confident. My mum also had to  drive me out and collect me from my piano teachers house those extra two days a week.  Dad was at work the whole time so I don't think he realised the inconvenience not having a piano was causing mum, me and my piano teacher.
 
Now, the current predicament.
I still need a piano. But the cost of tuning it is too much and I can't see my parents paying that. I'm not even sure if my dad would allow me to buy a piano.
I was going to buy a m-audio prokeys sono 88 but after researching it sound as if a Yamaha p95 would do a lot better. I currently do not have enough money to get one. I'm about $250 away. Now the problem I have is how I get money.
As the whole economy is pretty effed up, getting a job is just too hard. And I have appplied to places in town. The furthest I got was an unsuccessful interview.
My dad can give me a job as he is in a senior position where he works, but for reasons I don't know why and that he won't tell me, he won't.
Which leaves  my only possible sources of income to....birthday money.....selling stuff.......doing jobs for people.
I was expecting to paid a large amount for something recently, but that never came through and it won't.
My birthday was two weeks ago and I got about $100 for that. My sister who is about 3 years younger than me is a brat and will pay nothing for a piano. She's doing exams herself. She expects me to buy it and let her to use it for free. This same sister has given up only one activity outside school and is costing my parents the most money. My other younger sister would happily pay money towards it. She is dying to learn piano but because of money issues she doesn't go to lessons. Ive thought her the basics and she knows the benefits of getting a proper keyboard. She said she would contribute towards it, and give me a loan provided I have her lessons once a week. I'm a few weeks away from going back to school, and that means back to piano lessons. I'm about $250 away from being able to buy a p95.

One other thing I forgot to mention. I won an iPad back in May. I've held on to it. I was tempted to sell it. If I don't get enough money, I can always resort to selling it, but I do use it very regularly and it helps me immensely with everything as our computer at home is horrifically slow and none of us have money to buy a new one. It hopefully will not be something I'll have to do, but if I do, I can imagine my mum would be livid. She would be even more upset about the whole situation and that she would of partly caused me to sell something that I worked very hard for and won.

I am just so angry by the whole situation. There were so many opportunities where we could have bought a piano but didn't. For example, If we cut out just one Sunday lunch a month during the years 2005 - 2007 We would have saved nearly $2000. I can't help but wonder if there's another reason. Sorry for the long post and thanks for taking your time tothis for reading, its much appreciated. I just want to hear other people's opinions on it and to give an insight to piano teachers with students who's parents just won't by them a piano.

Please don't jump to any bad conclusions about me. If you have any questions, or think I could have done something better, just reply with a constructive comment. I will reply kindly!
Another thing I would like to add is that I have offered to pay most of the cost of a piano if my parents payed a small amount (circa $150). They still refused

[gleeok]

I read most of the post, and I can only imagine how you feel, but more than a piano itself the passion for playing is the most important thing on a pianist if you ask my opinion. Wishing you the best, I'm sure you will eventually get one  !

[outin]

What a sad story
When I was young my parents would not refuse any instrument I wanted to play and I did some, but to be honest I did not use my opportunities very well. I never really wanted it enough then. You obviously do and you really should get the opportunity to progress.

My advice is to not expect your parents to help but help yourself and get a proper but not too expensive digital piano as soon as possible. There's no reason why you wouldn't be able to progress with that, as long as the keys are properly weighted. You might get a used acoustic piano with a rather small sum as well, but the maintenance would cost you too much.

I wonder if it's not the money that is behind your father's unwillingness to get a piano, maybe he is worried about the noise?

It seems you already have almost enough money saved to get a digital piano, just be patient. I wish I could help...

[lostinarea51]

Thanks for the reply.

I think it probably is best to get a reasonably good keyboard/stage piano. As you mentioned, the costs involved with a piano I think would be too much for my parents to justify letting me get one.
At least with a stage piano, I can bring it with me when I move out. Whereas if I buy a piano, I'd still want a stage piano down a few years.

Noise is definitely not an excuse for my dad not to let me get a piano. We have a set of drums! And any way he's not at home most days so it's not like he'd here it being played.
Last year, I was about to purchase a M-audio prokeys sono 88. It's about $380 and my dad was ok with me buying it and said that he would buy it online for me (provided I paid upfront). My mum however, wouldn't let me becuause she wanted me to get a piano.

Whatever I buy, I can't please the two of them, because my mum would love to see a piano in the house. Now that I'm older though, I have a credit card, so buying a stage piano online would be no problem, and there's nothing my parents could do if it landed at the front door some day.

I'm $250 away from being able to afford a Yamaha p95. Just did a bit of searching there though and found this https://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/Keystation88es.html
It's a very cheap, semi weighted 88 key midi keyboard. I can buy it for $225. I'm thinking should I buy that, and then save up for something like a korg sp250 or should I wait a few months and just get a Yamaha p95?

YouTube  videos of the 88es make it look superb for its price. Either the p95 or the 88es will still not be adacuate for my level of piano playing, but it will still be 100x better than what I currently have

[outin]

I personally would not buy that cheap midi controller, at least the Yamaha or something in the same range has been used by many and from what I have heard it's a solid piece of equipment. In general I think when money is tight it's best to buy something a bit more expensive with an established brand/model than get something cheap and regret it later.

BTW.Would it be possible for you to save a bit more and get a digital piano with proper pedals and cabinet instead of a stage piano? If you browse this forum you will see that many really skilled players play with digital pianos and some digital pianos are really good these days without being terribly expensive. Even if you pay a bit more for the digital, you will still save all the costs of maintaining the acoustic piano.

[lostinarea51]

I read somewhere that the keyboard used in a Yamaha p95 is the same one used in a Yamaha YDP Arius 141 but yet it is $200+ more expensive than the stage piano.
I would prefer a digital piano, but I couldn't justify paying $200 extra for some wood and solid pedals.

Saying that though, could you think of any digital pianos, as good as a p95, for less than $600?

[hfmadopter]

I read somewhere that the keyboard used in a Yamaha p95 is the same one used in a Yamaha YDP Arius 141 but yet it is $200+ more expensive than the stage piano.
I would prefer a digital piano, but I couldn't justify paying $200 extra for some wood and solid pedals.

Saying that though, could you think of any digital pianos, as good as a p95, for less than $600?

This response has been edited to remove my text.

Edit to the Edit.

About the Korg SP 250. I have played one in a music store and it wasn't overly inspiring. On the other hand it did have solid keys. While pastic feeling they were not wiggly. I had suggested this piano at one point.

[lostinarea51]

Thanks for the reply
Ya the reviews on the korg sp250 have been fantastic everywhere I've read.
It's $350 away from what I can afford at the moment.

The past few weeks, by investing, buying and selling, spreading out money, I've been making about $10 each week. At that rate it would take me 35 weeks or 9months to be able to afford a sp250. However, if I get a job (still searching, applying) or can make money kther ways, it would take a lot quicker.
Howver, I'll plan for the worse.

So how does this plan sound...

Option 1: buy a cheap sub $200 keyboard and save for a sp250
Option 2: sell my iPad that I won. Buy a korg sp250 and save for a lower quality tablet (wouldn't take me long)

I'd say I could live without my iPad. Once school starts again I wouldn't use it as much (I hope not anyway because I'll need to study)

[outin]

So how does this plan sound...

Option 1: buy a cheap sub $200 keyboard and save for a sp250
Option 2: sell my iPad that I won. Buy a korg sp250 and save for a lower quality tablet (wouldn't take me long)

In option 1 you would need to save 200$ longer to get the sp250. Unless you can sell the cheap keyboard to someone else.

Option 2 seems good to me, if you prefer playing piano to whatever you do with your iPad. And if you get more out of your lessons with a better instrument, then the lessons would be worth more immediately.

[lostinarea51]

In option 1 you would need to save 200$ longer to get the sp250. Unless you can sell the cheap keyboard to someone else.

Option 2 seems good to me, if you prefer playing piano to whatever you do with your iPad. And if you get more out of your lessons with a better instrument, then the lessons would be worth more immediately.

Don't get me wrong, I love using my iPad. It's extremely useful and I use it a lot (on it right now). But the amount of time I spend on it will certainly not be possible once school starts. I have a Xbox and an android anyway. Tablet computers are getting ridcoulously cheap this year and Microsofts tablet is rumoured to launch at just $199 to comete with the kindle, Nexus 7 and the likes. The iPad is a premium device, and a premium device that I don't need to be premium!

The thing is though, practising in my current keyboard is just a chore. 15 minutes seems like forever in it. When my piano teacher let me practise in their house, I just fell in love with playing on their piano. 60 minutes would fly by no bother and I would enjoy what I was playing. I want every practise to be like that. the sp250 is a beauty of a stage piano, and although my parents wouldn't understand me getting it, I would. Another thing I forgot to mention is that I got my results back a month ago, I got a whole grade higher than what I have been getting for the last four years. This was completely down to all the practising I was doing in my piano teachers house.

I'm gonna stick my iPad up online in the next 2-3 days. Hopefully it will sell.
I'll be sure to keep this thread updated.
Thanks everyone

[chopin2015]

My parents loaned me the money for my baby grand. I am responsible for paying them back as well as the maintenance and tuning costs. Small price to pay for such beauty that will probably outlive me, and my kids will hopefully someday enjoy piano too! (I don't have any right now)

[lostinarea51]

Update:

Have a buyer for iPad and should hopefully have cash in my hand early next week.

Also found a b-stock korg sp250 for $110 less so I think I should opt for that.
The store also has a b-stock korg lp-350 for the same price as a korg sp250 new.

What should I opt for?
B-stock sp250; new korg sp250 or a B-Stock LP350?

Any difference between the sp250 and LP350 other than the stand?

[outin]

As it happens I tried the Korg 250 just yesterday. I also tried the Roland F-120. They were about the same price, and the Roland was A LOT better. Any chance you could get one of those?

[lostinarea51]

Seeing it as $360 more expensive than the korg sp250 new and circa $470 more expensive than b-stock sp250.
F-120 is not available as b-stock

What did you think of the sp250?

[outin]

Seeing it as $360 more expensive than the korg sp250 new and circa $470 more expensive than b-stock sp250.
F-120 is not available as b-stock

Well, that can't be helped I guess...

Can you go somewhere and test play these models? I think you really need to, because they can be very different and the taste in touch is so individual.

[lostinarea51]

Well, that can't be helped I guess...

Can you go somewhere and test play these models? I think you really need to, because they can be very different and the taste in touch is so individual.

That is not possible without me paying a fair bit for transport (parents don't know I'm buying)

[outin]

Compared to the F-120 the keys of the Korg seemed less piano-like (and even the F-120 felt a bit odd, but that I could live with). Sort of clumsy and toy-like. They didn't have the coating the F-120 has, they were just plastic.

[lostinarea51]

Compared to the F-120 the keys of the Korg seemed less piano-like (and even the F-120 felt a bit odd, but that I could live with). Sort of clumsy and toy-like. They didn't have the coating the F-120 has, they were just plastic.

Ok thanks for that.

Has anyone ever played a lp350? Do you think it would be worth the ~$130?

[ranniks]

I bought a cheap acoustic piano (console 42 inches tall) for 400 euros, which should be about 600 dollars. And it sounds absolutely good. My teacher played on it before and told me it was fine. So on his advice I bought it and got it home.

I'd say put an add somewhere saying you are looking for a piano. Someone might actually give you one for free because they need the space.

Couldn't you find a used acoustic for 500 dollars somewhere and have it tested out? Tuning it twice a year shouldn't be a problem if you don't spend much each month.

I'm not sure what tuning costes in the USA/UK, but:

A year has 12 months. Put 10 bucks away each month and there you have two tunings covered?

But I'm most likely talking way too easy since I can't imagine your situation. I wish you all the best and I hope you can get your hands on that piano. Remember: persistance and hard work beats any obstacles. If you have enough DESIRE and FAITH you can do anything you want.
Keep looking EVERY day for a used acoustic in your price range or a digital piano.

If I were rich I would have send you a Yamaha U3, hehe.

[lostinarea51]

I bought a cheap acoustic piano (console 42 inches tall) for 400 euros, which should be about 600 dollars. And it sounds absolutely good. My teacher played on it before and told me it was fine. So on his advice I bought it and got it home.

I'd say put an add somewhere saying you are looking for a piano. Someone might actually give you one for free because they need the space.

Couldn't you find a used acoustic for 500 dollars somewhere and have it tested out? Tuning it twice a year shouldn't be a problem if you don't spend much each month.

I'm not sure what tuning costes in the USA/UK, but:

A year has 12 months. Put 10 bucks away each month and there you have two tunings covered?

But I'm most likely talking way too easy since I can't imagine your situation. I wish you all the best and I hope you can get your hands on that piano. Remember: persistance and hard work beats any obstacles. If you have enough DESIRE and FAITH you can do anything you want.
Keep looking EVERY day for a used acoustic in your price range or a digital piano.

If I were rich I would have send you a Yamaha U3, hehe.

I'm not going to reveal where I live for obvious reasons, but tuning here costs over $100 US dollars each time.
The trouble with where I live is that if I put up an ad saying piano wanted or etc, some sly snake will just use me as a free disposal service.
There are one or two businesses within 30minutes of me that sell used pianos. I haven't actually visited them, (closest we got was mum calling one).
Also, me buying a piano is a lot harder then buying a digital/stage piano.
I could get a half-decent piano for the same price as a korg sp250, the problem is that I'd still want a stage piano once I move out, and my grandmother has a piano (a nice one too) that the only way we'll get our hands on it is if she kicks the bucket (I'm not wishing death upon her! Just stating she just wouldn't let us take it :p)

I can send a PM to anyone willing to help, to a link of pianos in my area that are for sale. Theres one or two for the same price as a korg sp250. I'd have to go and test it out myself though, pay in cash and get them to deliver it (and give my parents a heart attack :p ) Also, I'd be kinda taking over the house with it. Everyone would hear it being played throughout the house and I wouldn't be able it after 7:30pm. Would it still be worth it?

Thanks for the support. Just really want something playable before I return to piano lessons this year. I made a promise to myself before summer that I wouldn't go back without some sort of piano; and everyone seems to be getting in the way hopefully, my sale with iPad will go ok. Should be ok then.

Mmmmm.....would love a u3 :-) thanks for the gesture
Any millionaires here?

[searchingfordistance]

My first piano was a keyboard Casio CTK-3000 and it was ok for beginner pieces(around 65 keys) and it cost me 273 dollars. It was ok but it did not feel the way you feel around a real Piano.

This spring one of my mom's friends had a piano that they had storred up for some 15 years and they new that I wanted a piano. It was a upright piano and they only wanted 76 dollars for it. It was quite tuned when I got it. but the real difference is huge in the sound and the total weight of the piano(weight over 200kg) vs the keyboard (weight around 2-20 kg). We where 5 people trying to get the piano to the house and it took 1 hour to get it inside from the car.

I hope that you get what you deserve. A piano or keyboard of great level. Some people would give away pianos for some small amounts but then comes the tuning around 100-200 dollars a year or every second year depending on the conditions.

[lostinarea51]

UPDATE: Bad news I'm afraid

I had a local buyer for the iPad.....they have just backed out

I'm left with just under a week to my piano lesson. I don't have enough to buy a piano or a digital piano. I'm not allowed take out a $300 loan from my sister which was another idea i came up with

Nobody is willing to pay much for the iPad and since I am under 18...nobody really trusts someone my age selling such a valuable item. The local purchaser was offering $400 cash and no one else was willing to pay over $360, and they wanted delivery included

I honestly don't know what to do. I'm thinking of emailing a regional/state radio station to try and get someone to donate a piano.

what should i do? buy a cheap sub $350 stage piano or go begging?

I just can't believe I'm am going through all this yet again.......so annoyed and disappointed

[chopin2015]

You could find a nice piano on craigslist. Have you checked there? Just don't go to someone's house alone.

[unholeee]

I would lay on the emotional attacks, probably resort to smashing things as well, smoking. selling stuff that isn't nailed down, etc. you sound like you a have a strong resolve. hopefully something will come your way.

[lostinarea51]

You could find a nice piano on craigslist. Have you checked there? Just don't go to someone's house alone.

Ya I did....nada avaiable

I would lay on the emotional attacks, probably resort to smashing things as well, smoking. selling stuff that isn't nailed down, etc. you sound like you a have a strong resolve. hopefully something will come your way.

Smashing things? Smoking? Ya I'm sure that would work
Or even better, maybe I should leave the window where the keyboard is located and hide the keyboard somewhere, then when someone walks in, they'll think it would have been stolen and my parents will have no choice but to buy a piano, with financial assistance from me of course :p

Seriously though, any legal suggestions ?

[unholeee]

Ya I did....nada avaiable
Smashing things? Smoking? Ya I'm sure that would work

Not saying you should - It is what I would do though. Worked for me and my brother, we were bought a basketball hoop instead of a nintendo we wanted. 2 weeks later we had both.

emotional abuse is pretty easy though, plus probably make you feel better, maybe, maybe not. maybe you feel ok about not having a piano.

My brother still gets ounces of assistance to this day.. and not just from family. I'm not very emotional though. It's more of an act. But what parent wouldn't prefer a constructive, dutiful kid with good hobbies as opposed to one coming home all hours of the night, out god knows where, doing god knows what.

But maybe they think you will grow out of it, but then again I looked at a few pianos when i was buying one - where people paid 4k+ only for their kids to get bored of it the first month.

Or even better, maybe I should leave the window where the keyboard is located and hide the keyboard somewhere, then when someone walks in, they'll think it would have been stolen

I think they would be more likely to take your xbox and ipad..unless you can reason with your parents that maybe the thief really hated your piano playing.

[lostinarea51]

Not saying you should - It is what I would do though. Worked for me and my brother, we were bought a basketball hoop instead of a nintendo we wanted. 2 weeks later we had both.

emotional abuse is pretty easy though, plus probably make you feel better, maybe, maybe not. maybe you feel ok about not having a piano.

no way that would work with my parents...not a chance. They'd be more likely to take away stuff from me; my dad especially.
I certainly don't feel ok without a piano....don't get me wrong

My brother still gets ounces of assistance to this day.. and not just from family. I'm not very emotional though. It's more of an act. But what parent wouldn't prefer a constructive, dutiful kid with good hobbies as opposed to one coming home all hours of the night, out god knows where, doing god knows what.

But maybe they think you will grow out of it, but then again I looked at a few pianos when i was buying one - where people paid 4k+ only for their kids to get bored of it the first month.

my parents don't think like that  
Funny that you mention that, two of my friends have got caught for doing something illegal this week. Luckily i wasn't with them at the time.
My parents don't think that being a law-abiding, studious, non-troublesome, hard-working and advanced and skilled piano player who practises on a 66 key, non-weighted keyboard is a good enough reason for them to buy a piano. They have spent thousands on piano lessons, and to compare that to what was spent on the keyboard is just mind-boggling.
They just refuse to discuss the whole piano thing. Mainly because I (and others) have brought it up so many times and the answer is still the same

I think they would be more likely to take your xbox and ipad..unless you can reason with your parents that maybe the thief really hated your piano playing.

You'd be surprised what people would steal here. i saw someone that was living in a different area to us walking into some trees and through to a different housing area with a children's bicycle in their arm. i could also open up the keyboard and cut a few wires or something. I don't know what my parents would do though; they would most likely buy something better with the help of me.

But anyway..back to a serious note...

i think i'll go to one of my many last resort plans to raise money that I have little hope of succeeding. If they don't work, I'll have to take more drastic measures. I'll be sure report back

[ranniks]

Whatever you do remember:

Quitters never Win.
Winners never Quit.

Hope you know what I mean.

[lostinarea51]

  GREAT NEWS PEOPLE!  

i took a wild chance and relisted my ipad for sale...
found a buyer within an hour of relisting and I sold it today!

received money today and the buyer was completely genuine. They were offering more than what others were, but less than I hoped I would get (but dont mind taking a deduction for a smooth transaction)

I've yet to go talk to parents and tell them what I've done.
i'll order the korg on monday night/tuesday afternoon once I have my prepaid credit card sorted out...so I should my shiny sp250 on Friday morning

Should I let my parents know it's coming the night before or a day or two in advance? and of course try my best to explain why I sold it

I'm so relieved....Thanks everyone!
I'll be back!

[chopin2015]

Great news! Congrats!

[lostinarea51]

korg sp250 will be here tomorrow some time, so will be at home waiting for me when I'm back from school tomorrow....just over 24 hours away 

My dad is working late tonight...but I wanted to tell my parents at the same time

Should I chance it and wait around to tell both tonight? (my mum is more likely to flip than dad; id say dad wouldn't mind me selling ipad for a piano, but he won't argue with mum)

if i tell my mum on her own, she is likely to go crazy and call dad and exaggerate everything.

So should i.....
- Tell mum now and send a text to dad
- Wait till dad comes home late tonight and tell them at the same time
- Tell them in the morning

I would of course explain everything calmly and also state I have enough money to buy a new tablet such as a Nexus 7

(in a good mood by the way  hopefully all will be sorted out tomorrow )

[outin]

korg sp250 will be here tomorrow some time, so will be at home waiting for me when I'm back from school tomorrow....just over 24 hours away 

Very happy for you!

Just an idea... if you think your dad will take it more calmly, is it not possible to tell him first and ask him to talk to your mum?

It's been a while since I had to deal with this sort of thing 

[lostinarea51]

Very happy for you!

Just an idea... if you think your dad will take it more calmly, is it not possible to tell him first and ask him to talk to your mum?

It's been a while since I had to deal with this sort of thing 

 No way i can talk to my dad alone before tomorrow.
My gut feeling is to just leave it til tonight.....hopefully he wont be back too late.
Again, gonna have to do it calmly. ....otherwise all hell will break loose.

[outin]

Do you think they would get mad if you just calmly tell them that it really is much more beneficial for your development and success in life to learn to play piano (which teaches you self dicipline and developes many mental functions) than playing with a technical gadget that gives you access to much material in the internet that really is not so good for a young mind.

Just promise them that you are not planning to become a professional musician but get a proper profession. And that you never planned to neglect school work. Piano playing is just something to help you relax and give you strength to do well in your other studies. 

[lostinarea51]

Do you think they would get mad if you just calmly tell them that it really is much more beneficial for your development and success in life to learn to play piano (which teaches you self dicipline and developes many mental functions) than playing with a technical gadget that gives you access to much material in the internet that really is not so good for a young mind.

Just promise them that you are not planning to become a professional musician but get a proper profession. And that you never planned to neglect school work. Piano playing is just something to help you relax and give you strength to do well in your other studies. 

That statement could stir some arguments! (not here though  )

Good ideas though of what to say. Could also say I just get frustrated playing my current....well...whatever the hell it's supposed to be 

Will report back later if I tell them tonight

[outin]

Good ideas though of what to say. Could also say I just get frustrated playing my current....well...whatever the hell it's supposed to be 

Actually...If they have paid for it that might not be wise. You would sound ungrateful...

[lostinarea51]

Actually...If they have paid for it that might not be wise. You would sound ungrateful...

dont worry i was being sarcastic.

talked to mum and dad......
theyre raging. They angry the fact that I went behind their back to sell ipad and buy a piano, which is understandable. but they're also angry at the fact that i think i can just order something that big into the house. I talked as calmly as possible...dad was having none of it.
he has threatened to stay home from work tomorrow so he can send back the piano. ill most likely be forced to quit piano lessons.

This is just one big mess.....

[hfmadopter]

I bet you're not real surprised by this. This whole story is unfolding like a throw back to the 1950s and my Polish up bringing. Well, there was no such thing as an iPad or a digital piano back then and my parents did ask if I wanted music lessons, just no piano. I got an accordian instead. Not ungrateful mind you, at least they did something but I would not be allowed to defy them at any rate. But none the less, that all worked fine till I got my paper route and was earning my own money. Course I was 10 years old at that point, by 13 I paid for most of my own things and even lent my mother money till pay day if money was lean in the house a particular week.. That's something that's a bit different from todays living I think.

I hope this turns out well but I had a feeling it may go this way. Look at the long haul. They will always be your parents. You, will always have an interest in music even if this turns out badly in the short term. I quit accordian at 15 but as an adult I took up piano on my own. In my own house I could put in a grand piano and did just that.  My parents always wanted me to be around music, they just didn't understand that accordian wasn't the tool I needed, nor playing polkas in an all accordian band ! Being a kid, what's worse is I didn't know that either ! My parents and other family and many aquaintances attended my private piano recitals in my adulthood though. Now my parents are no longer with me ( my mother died of breast cancer at 57, my dad of a car crash and resulting heart attach at 72) but I can assure you that parents ultimately want what they feel is right for their kids. They do unless it's a particular kind of abusive household and I don't think that's your case.

Hopefully there can be discussion and resolve in your favor though.

[outin]

A digital/stage piano is not that big! You could just tell them you'll keep it in your room. They probably just don't know this if they haven't seen one. Explain them, I kept mine under the bed for some time before I really started playing it.

You're 17 right? So old enough to make some decisions that really should not concern your parents THAT much, IMO.

I think it's time to ask another adult to talk some sense into your parents. Their reaction is really out of proportion IMHO. Could you ask your piano teacher to talk to them?

[lostinarea51]

A digital/stage piano is not that big! You could just tell them you'll keep it in your room. They probably just don't know this if they haven't seen one. Explain them, I kept mine under the bed for some time before I really started playing it.

You're 17 right? So old enough to make some decisions that really should not concern your parents THAT much, IMO.

I think it's time to ask another adult to talk some sense into your parents. Their reaction is really out of proportion IMHO. Could you ask your piano teacher to talk to them?

And here i was thinking i was doing good...

Thats the reason i bought a stage piano. My original plan was to put it in my room and get my two sisters to pay me a small amount of money to use it. Last night I told them I do not intend to do that and itll be put downstairs for EVERYONE to freely enjoy, unlike my ipad.

Ikr, Im 17. Im legally old enough to drive, get married, work and have kids. But Im not old enough to go off on my own and sell my ipad and buy a piano.

My piano teacher will be hugely upset if they here this. There is just no possible way for me to go back to piano without some form of a piano. To get this far, and not be able to progress is just.....i cant think of a strong enough word. I do appreciate my parents paying for piano lessons but maybe Id be spared all this trauma if they didn't.

Im being called sly and devious and now going solo. I think my dad would like complete control me as long as possible. He said he was shocked when i said i have a prepaid credit card (which he actually opened when it came in the post).

ill be back in a few hours with an update...

EDIT: @hfmadopter thanks for your post, I understand you.

Does anyone now can you actually turn around a courier and send your parcel back? Or do you have to accept amd then arrange a pick up.

[hfmadopter]

And here i was thinking i was doing good...

That's the reason i bought a stage piano. My original plan was to put it in my room and get my two sisters to pay me a small amount of money to use it. Last night I told them I do not intend to do that and it'll be put downstairs for EVERYONE to freely enjoy, unlike my ipad.

Idk, Im 17. I'm legally old enough to drive, get married, work and have kids. But I'm not old enough to go off on my own and sell my ipad and buy a piano.

My piano teacher will be hugely upset if they here this. There is just no possible way for me to go back to piano without some form of a piano. To get this far, and not be able to progress is just.....i cant think of a strong enough word. I do appreciate my parents paying for piano lessons but maybe Id be spared all this trauma if they didn't.

I'm being called sly and devious and now going solo. I think my dad would like complete control me as long as possible. He said he was shocked when i said i have a prepaid credit card (which he actually opened when it came in the post).

ill be back in a few hours with an update...

EDIT: @hfmadopter thanks for your post, I understand you.

Does anyone now can you actually turn around a courier and send your parcel back? Or do you have to accept and then arrange a pick up.

I'm thinking it's time for your parents to open their eyes. Many parents should be so lucky to have a child go so far in their lessons. They don't understand the damage they are doing. If you told them what you told us, what would they do ( about being old enough to drive and to marry etc) ? And to explain that you feel they are being ridiculous ? Not in defiance just as a common sense approach. Ask then why do they want to ruin your piano advancement after so many years of them paying for you to learn piano. There is some hitch in the works here !

I raised five children myself ( I should say my wife and I did) , we would be proud to have a child go so far. My son was capable and we all were disappointed when he dropped piano lessons. He was capable enough that hiis teacher felt she could have lined him up with a musical scholarship and he wouldn't continue. My daughters never tried. My stepson tried clarinet and I find out now that he is 40 yo that he has always wanted to play violin, why did he not open his mouth back when he was 15 ? I do not know. We would have let him get a violin and learn for sure. We love music here !

outin had a good idea about having someone from the outside speak with them. One things for sure, you turned the house upside down ! It may not be all bad though, it seems it now, let's see where this goes. If you have conviction it will work out I assure you. When music is in someones sole,( I like to say in your marrow), you can not be fully stopped. That music has to come out in some way. I know your situation feels dire but life is much longer than being 17 yo.

[lostinarea51]

I'm thinking it's time for your parents to open their eyes. Many parents should be so lucky to have a child go so far in their lessons. They don't understand the damage they are doing. If you told them what you told us, what would they do ( about being old enough to drive and to marry etc) ? And to explain that you feel they are being ridiculous ? Not in defiance just as a common sense approach. Ask then why do they want to ruin your piano advancement after so many years of them paying for you to learn piano. There is some hitch in the works here !

Thanks for that.....It's calmed me
My parents wouldn't really see music as a pastime....well music lessons anyway....to my dad it's just another extra-circular activity that costs money (my dad's parents never provided any activities for him). And he doesn't see any sense in upgrading an instrument; if it works, it's all you need.

My mum on the other hand, wants me to keep up everything I like....and she is the main reason I do all the activities. (my mum's parents enrolled her in activities as a child). She does believe that a good instrument will greatly help you.

The difference in the childhood, and my mum's increased involvement in our activities I'd say is definitely some of the reasons. However, one thing they are both upset about is me going behind their back to sell my ipad and buying a piano (that i won....not them). It's probably a smack in the face to how much I can do without them...they would be used to me asking for everything and paying cash and having control over everything bought over the Internet.

I raised five children myself ( I should say my wife and I did) , we would be proud to have a child go so far. My son was capable and we all were disappointed when he dropped piano lessons. He was capable enough that hiis teacher felt she could have lined him up with a musical scholarship and he wouldn't continue. My daughters never tried. My stepson tried clarinet and I find out now that he is 40 yo that he has always wanted to play violin, why did he not open his mouth back when he was 15 ? I do not know. We would have let him get a violin and learn for sure. We love music here !

Well done on raising five children, especially for even offering them the chance to play and PROGRESS at music! I'm the oldest of three and is hectic enough here!
I can relate to your stepson who played clarinet but wanted a violin. I used to play trumpet but gave it up about 3 years ago....mainly because my trumpet needed upgrading (where have we heard this before?   ) and I didn't enjoy playing the trumpet, I loved the music I was playing with others....I just despised the trumpet, or maybe the trumpet I had......oh I'll never know.
I also gave it up because I was doing to many activities and it was unfair for my parents to pay out to something I just wasn't enjoying.

outin had a good idea about having someone from the outside speak with them. One things for sure, you turned the house upside down ! It may not be all bad though, it seems it now, let's see where this goes. If you have conviction it will work out I assure you. When music is in someones sole,( I like to say in your marrow), you can not be fully stopped. That music has to come out in some way. I know your situation feels dire but life is much longer than being 17 yo.

That would be a recipe for disaster I would think

Been home a long while now.....meant to reply sooner

Dad went to work and didn't hang around for the delivery. dad arrived home much earlier last night....about five hours before I expected.
My mum signed for the piano, and a discussion is pending. (So there is a chance I'll get to keep it, but after the trail of destruction I've left...well the house really is upside down as you said).

I am really hoping this will all work out.....but what has happened in the last 24 hours will never be forgotten....what happens in the next 48 hours will decide everything

[outin]

My mum signed for the piano, and a discussion is pending. (So there is a chance I'll get to keep it, but after the trail of destruction I've left...well the house really is upside down as you said).

I am really hoping this will all work out.....but what has happened in the last 24 hours will never be forgotten....what happens in the next 48 hours will decide everything

It may seem like that now, but I promise it will be forgotten and probably you will all laught at it one day.

You growing up is probably just a bit tough for your parents. It is also good to undertand that parents and adults on general have a lot of stress with their work and often also financial trouble and they tend to worry about the children a lot too. They usually cannot relieve this stress anywhere else than home. So their reactions may not be just because of the piano, it may have just been a "last straw".

Just be nice now, maybe ask your mum if you could do something to help etc. It will calm down. I think they just want to make this decision about the piano instead of letting you do it. Play your best now to make them decide the right way for you.

[lostinarea51]

It may seem like that now, but I promise it will be forgotten and probably you will all laught at it one day.

You growing up is probably just a bit tough for your parents. It is also good to undertand that parents and adults on general have a lot of stress with their work and often also financial trouble and they tend to worry about the children a lot too. They usually cannot relieve this stress anywhere else than home. So their reactions may not be just because of the piano, it may have just been a "last straw".

Just be nice now, maybe ask your mum if you could do something to help etc. It will calm down. I think they just want to make this decision about the piano instead of letting you do it. Play your best now to make them decide the right way for you.

I'll try and stay calm, helpful and quiet for the weekend.

I don't want them to make a decision based on anger and annoyance. They have the weekend to think since nothing can be done until Monday anyway.

I'll be back tomorrow or late tonight ...talk then

[outin]

I guess it wouldn't hurt to apologize even if you don't feel like you did anything wrong and tell them that you didn't really understand that you were doing something wrong. Maybe promise that you won't ask for anything else for a long time if you can keep the instrument...

[unholeee]

I would call the police if your instrument is confiscated. stand up for yourself.

[hfmadopter]

I would call the police if your instrument is confiscated. stand up for yourself.

Lets hope it's not going to come to that. I'm hoping for this to resolve itself .

The piano is the OP's for sure, bought and delivered. Here in the US though, a parent has jurisdiction over children's content in their house to a very large degree. Much as the OP is saying, at least here, they can move out and be on their own legally , legally marry, legally drive a car etc. But in that house they are still a minor until 18 and if something backfires on a charge card it would be the parents responsibility ( I believe this was a cash card, so nothing is backfiring).

That said, I'd think most households today in the US don't get this controlling ( we also do not know where the OP is located ( Lost In Area 51's choice). But I would hope at any rate, the parents would honor that the purchase was totally the choice of the OP and let things stand. At 17 one should be able to take certain liberties with choice of owning either the iPad or a  D piano, since the parents have no investment in either item. Again hopefully.

[lostinarea51]

Thanks for the replys

dad is more angry than mam. I was talking to mam there. She say's I'm going to have to apologize, and it's still not decided If i can keep it.

My mam also can not understand how a 'keyboard with a pedal' is worth $800 RRP.

So not only do I have to try and explain the difference between a digital and stage piano, convince my dad to let me keep it, I have apologize for not telling them anything.You would swear I stole their credit card.
If I can't keep it, I can't go back to piano....plain and simple

I feel like screaming at the top of my lungs.

Any suggestions of what to say? Currently have a free house until they get back which should be soon.  

[ranniks]

One thing:

It is their house. Not to discourage anything, but you'd have to make a compromise with them. I would love to be able to play piano for 2 hours a day, but the thing is: my piano (bought a few weeks ago) couldn't go up the stairs into my room, so I asked my dad if it could stay in the living room to which he consented. But I can't play for longer than an hour because they watch tv and I can't play piano with them watching the tv because they have it on loud.

So I've setled for an hour.

When I'm 23 (I'm 20 at the moment) I'm going to live on my own and will be able to play until my ears fall of.

It's just the things you can't CONTROL. You need to compromise with them without sounding like a 15 year old (not that you are one). Sit with them around the table, just the three of you.

Talk to them like you are very serious; an adult. Tell them that if you can't play for an hour a day and/or keep the piano, your relationship with them will suffer and they might not see you in the future.

Be that assertive......

[outin]

Any suggestions of what to say? Currently have a free house until they get back which should be soon.  

It's a bit hard to tell you what to say because I don't know how you would normally speak. Just tell them you are sorry if they feel you have betrayed them. You only meant to find a solution for your piano problem that would not require them to use any money or bother them with the issue, since you know they have a lot of other things to worry about. Tell them that you did extensive research and asked advice from experts so that you are sure this ourchase was worth the money.