What do you guys think of pirating?

[ahinton]

I'm hearing that, but I don't understand why the work being in copyright for a period of time matters if the composer isn't getting any money from it anyway.

The point of copyright as matters now stand (and indeed as they have now stood for many years) is that the composer himself/herself is due royalties during his/her lifetime and his/her estate due them thereafter until copyright expires; clearly, a composer's last works will benefit the composer little or possibly not at all, since royalties can take months or even years to be credit following the performance or broadcast concerned.

I guess I am biased here because I don't understand why one would possibly want to pirate sheet music. Printing it off on your own crappy printer and having to deal with a ton of loose papers vs. having a nice, clean edition doesn't make sense to me.

Well, let me assure you that it happens! I know of plenty of scores of copyright works that have been uploaded for free download, so you may as well take my word for it (or go look up some yourself)!

You mention published and unpublished scores...how does one go about obtaining the music for a score that won't be published without piracy? Or would you just say that you don't obtain it?

A composer or copyright holder of a work can supply a copy of an unpublished score if asked and if he/she/they agree to supply it.

Best,

Alistair

[black_keys]

Are you trying to tell us that there is no such thing as intellectual property rights of any kind in Lebanon?

Lebanon is a signatory to the Berne Convention and the Geneva version of the Universal Copyright Convention. Copyright is recognised under Lebanese law.

Given the sometimes fragile state of enforcement, though, the extent to which IP exists de facto is questionable.

yes it is recognised under the law , but no one even the government respect that , all CD/DVD shops pirate all kind of CDs (music , movie games, softwares...) and sell them for 1$-2$ , we buy nothing original , its kinda normal here .

[ahinton]

yes it is recognised under the law , but no one even the government respect that , all CD/DVD shops pirate all kind of CDs (music , movie games, softwares...) and sell them for 1$-2$ , we buy nothing original , its kinda normal here .

So what you are really saying is not that pirating is lawful in Lebanon but that a lot of it goes on and it is poorly policed by government and the courts, which is quite a different thing. Earlier in this thread, someone made the comparison with the crime of murder in the context of the existence and application of intellectual property law; in the light of what you write, it's surely a good thing that the government of Lebanon does not (or at least I hope and presume that it does not!) take an identical view of murder as you say that it does of intellectual property violations - but all that this tells anyone in any case is that Lebanon is alleged to be a country that chooses to be lax in upholding its own intellectual property laws, which might arguably be regarded by some as significant insofar as any country that makes and then fails properly to police any of its own laws is one where government-sanctioned lawlessness might at any time risk threatening to undermine the very government / judiciary / police structure altogether.

Oh, by the way - and with a view to providing a simple answer to the question posed in the thread title - I understand that it's very popular in Somalia at the moment...

Best,

Alistair

[black_keys]

if you take a look at Lebanon politic and economic history you can understand whats going on. Piracy is not poorly policed , its not policed at all, the government is like: "the economic situation is so bad , so let the people do anything economic".

Thats a bad decision and not fair I know, and Im against that and against anything that hurt other people.

[nocturnetr]

 In art, I do. In other things, I don't...

[lloyd_cdb]

I was too lazy to read through everyone's essays, so I'll just state my beliefs.

Sheet music:

Dependent on whether the composer is alive or dead.  My 'pirating' of a chopin piece that is public domain (given that the sheet is still pirated from a publisher) is hardly unethical. If a composer is alive or recently dead (in that their family is still dependent on royalties), I'd never pirate it.

Youtube:

I saw mentions of Lisitsa, so I'll speak to those comments.  If she posts performances on youtube, that is a conscious choice to put her performances in a publicly accessible manner.  If someone else posts it, it's unethical to rip the music off for your own personal use.  If I post a performance of myself on youtube, it's perfectly acceptable to rip it off.  It's not about their career intentions but about conscious choice how their art is released.

Generalized musical performance:

Given that these performers usually aren't performing pieces they wrote is irrelevant, since their potential to sell the music is about artistic interpretation, not about composition.  The conscious choice to sell the sheet music by composers means they are allowing others to perform it how they choose, and the restrictions on the music are typically stated as reproduction for personal gain, not performance for personal gain.

[indianajo]

I met Rich Mullins once, a mid-western composer and performer. I bought his CD.  
He died in a car wreck a few years later driving from church to church late on a snowy night trying to make a little money from his talent.  We would have been better off if he could have been at home composing more music or out living life so he would have something to write about.  
My church performs his music without buying copies to hand out, or having an ASCAP or BMI license, or anything. They just put the lyrics on the screen.  I have complained, but "everybody does it". American Tobacco Co and their radio show Hit Parade won the court case about reprinting only the lyrics 60 years ago.   He is dead anyway, why should I care.  
I don't download stuff, it can be too sleazy.  I do buy used LP's and CD's, which at least paid the artist or his assignee a royalty once.  (lots of cheating happened in music publishing in the fifties).    I might upload public domain stuff I perform to u-tube or soundcloud someday, but I won't be violating any copyrights if I can help it.  

[rachmaninoff_forever]

I met Rich Mullins once, a mid-western composer and performer. I bought his CD.  
He died in a car wreck a few years later driving from church to church late on a snowy night trying to make a little money from his talent.  We would have been better off if he could have been at home composing more music or out living life so he would have something to write about.  

Guilt trip fallacy?

[ahinton]

Guilt trip fallacy?

Does it have to be? One of the most amazing discoveries that I've made in recent times is the sheer numbers of people out there who (on a point of principle) habitually decline the many so many opportunities that there are out there to breach the rights of owners of intellectual property...

Best,

Alistair

[49410enrique]

 

[ahinton]

Now much as I, as a composer and someone with, I hope, some sense of justice, generally uphold and defend the rights of copyright holders, here is a piece of the most absurd nonsense that I think I've ever come across on the subject and which will likely do less than no favours to those who genuinely hold intellectual property rights and who do not seek to exploit them unreasonably:
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/your-right-to-resell-your-own-stuff-is-in-peril-2012-10-04
If this were ever to pass into US legislation and then catch on elsewhere, it would almost certainly come near the point at which few people could ever resell anything withoutg fear of legal pursuit!

Best,

Alistair