strategies for Left Hand Jumps without looking

[goodtone]

I'm trying to learn to play more without looking at my hands and I'm looking for ideas to find my way around the keyboard specifcally for long leaps e.g I'm currenly learning Chopins Waltz in A minor (Op. Posth.) and looking a both hands and following the music in the second and third section I'm finding hard. The best way forward I believe is to learn by touch.  I have found that for the left hand I can now measure an octave with my left hand thumb and little finger and so in some instances am using this as a reference point when doing a left hand leap. Other times the black keys can help.
I'm wondering what other ideas you are aware of that would help with the left hand leaps that could help.  Some of it is experience and building up a mental map of the keyboard but I'd be interested in any practical tips that anyone has.
GT

[m1469]

HS memorization will obviously be a good step, but even once it's memorized you won't be able to look at both hands at once and will need to rely upon different types of memory when performing.  You will definitely want to be capable of playing LH without looking.

There are two main tricks with a figuration like that, one is the motion from the bass note (beat #1) to the first chord (beat #2), the other is the motion out of the second chord (beat #3) back to the bass note (beat #1 of the next measure).  Plus the fact that the bass line is moving and the chords are changing, so you're not jumping back and forth to the same places.

Memorize the first beats by themselves, the walking bass in time and in the first 4 measures phrase.  Memorize the chords by themselves.  Both of those in time and with the correct fingering.  Both tasks may take a total of 10 mins, maybe a bit longer.  

Then, practice just the two jumping spots by measure (linking beat #3 to beat #1 of the following measure), until you can do those without looking and accurately 7-10 times in a row.  Take just one measure at a time, but your first bigger goal is to accomplish a phrase like this.  Do it step by step, getting one measure at time and then linking two measures, until you can do all four without looking and without mistakes.  Alternate between practicing just the bass notes and just the chords with practicing the jumps, and then piece the whole bass line together as written.   Be a stickler with yourself on this and you will have already increased your skill level by the next four measure phrase, and it won't be the same challenge (though you must take the steps you need to take if you can't do it without the steps).  

The next trick is getting HT, and you will want to have RH memorized separately, too.  To get them working together, play the RH while just playing the walking bass in the LH, play the RH while just playing the chords in the LH.  Sing the RH while playing the entire LH.  Singing/phonating individual parts, even if you don't consider yourself a "singer," can help to clarify to yourself the sound of those parts as well as giving it a type of physical independence that isn't necessarily achieved by other means.  

If you spend the effort in first 16 measures, you will grow tremendously in that time and the rest of the piece won't be the same struggle.  

[1piano4joe]

I have written a post on jumps before but it did not include "not looking" especially on long leaps.

I don't think it's wise to do and/or particularly easy.

I am sure there are people who can do it as there are people who can and do play all kinds of things that I can't and probably never will be able to like "La Campanella" for instance.

I always thought that looking was pretty much standard practice and you focused on where you were "jumping to" and that it was a matter of "eye training" to be able to look away from the score to your hands and back without losing one's place.

I find it only necessary to jump "blindly" on contrary motion double hand shift "jumps" as I can't look at two places at once. "Musette" by Bach leaps to mind. Pun intended. I have been practicing this simple level 2 piece for years, jumping blindly and I have not solved "MY" problem and I'm still missing landings.

I will offer the following suggestions that perhaps you will find useful and hopefully have better success with than I.

Start with very, very small jumps and gradually increase them week by week.

Practice the specific jump for the specific piece by looking and playing only that one hand only. Get this on automatic pilot at or above tempo. Now slow down and don't "look" directly at what your doing but ever so slightly shift your gaze and start jumping. If your making mistakes then your looking too far away too soon. This is like increasing the tempo on the metronome too much too soon before your ready. Everyone has a built in learning clock/curve and only you know what yours is.

In summary, my tips are:

1. gradually increasing "looking away".

2. gradually increase the speed.

3. gradually increase the distance.

4. consider "overpracticing" which is jumping an octave (or two) further than you need to. 

It should be possible to use more and more peripheral vision and possibly even close your eyes. I don't know for certain but I suspect this is a very difficult skill that only comes with years of experience and gets better and better the longer you have been playing.

I hope I have been helpful, Joe.

[corecase]

Well, I'm trying to learn Liszt's La Campanella at the moment, and the right hand is very often FULL of long leaps; however, the top note that you have to "leap to" constantly is usually the same note.  At this point I'm able to play these parts without looking at the key to which I'm leaping -- the way I did it was to simply practice the leap non-stop until my hands and fingers memorized exactly the note to which I'm leaping, so that I wouldn't have to look at my right hand all the time.  I'm guessing you could use a similar approach to practice your own "leaps". 

[j_menz]

As someone who reads the score whenever I play, I have no choice but to not look. I think that meant my keyboard feel was probably better than average when I started encountering leaps, but you start from where you are.

The thing to do is practice them. Without looking. Learn the feel and the sound. Practice slow, get faster while preserving accuracy. Be patient, it may take a while.

Ultimately, everyone has to learn to do this. There are plenty of advanced pieces where there are leaps in both hands. You simply don't have time to look at them both. So, it's effort well invested.

[chopin2015]

Yeah, I think anticipation is the word I would use to describe it if you are trying to not look at your left hand, but you can look at one hand. I usually look at my left to make sure it is steady or if it is a matter of many notes(it's a little less smart than the right in my case) and let the right hand do it's thing, it knows it's fingering and melody. That is pretty much my method for this genre of music.

[ajspiano]

sorry if this stuff has already been said..

mentally grouping notes in musical directions..

Basically, what I mean is (lets leave out the idea of not looking for now) group the note from the bottom of the leap and the top of the leap as one phrase (and vice versa when leaping back down), so even though you will disconnect physically from the bottom note they will feel fluent, kind of legato like. This is as opposed to feeling a complete disconnection from the bottom note and having to re-place your hand in the new position from scratch.

Additionally, say this is left hand and the bottom note is played with the 5th finger. for the leap, lead or think from the thumb (it makes it seem much shorter) as you execute the leap.

It can also sometimes help to use a bit of rotation in it (test how it works for you) -as you play the 5th finger you would turn your forearm so that the palm of the hand is facing to the right - then swing it back down toward the thumb as you play the top note of the leap. The amount that you turn the arm is dependent on the length of the leap.

Most of the above comes from the taubman video on leaps..  for those doing la campanella, they recommend always thinking from the top note down for those leaps.. I found it to be effective, though there is more to it of course.

[goodtone]

Many thanks for all the replies. Some great ideas and advice which I can incorporate int my practice. It's interesting to hear the different approaches on this and I think the answer lies in a combination of all the approaches with a lot of time practice and repetition.
GT

[ted]

Play some stride and ragtime. The issue is much more continuous and pronounced there, so if you can do that you can probably easily cope with whatever is in classical. I have played stride and ragtime for many years and it really isn't practical to look at the left hand, except perhaps for the odd landmark. Years ago I used the following practice strategy:

Pick on a chord near the middle of the piano, doesn't matter which chord. Start with the lower octave (or single note, or tenth for big hands) close to the chord and for each successive jump to the chord move the octave  (note, tenth) down a semitone each time while keeping the same speed. Repeat the exercise with many different chords and keys until it becomes second nature while remaining light and clear and without any sort of strain.

That worked for me as far as swing basses go, so I don't see why it couldn't be employed generally.

[goodtone]

thanks for the Advice Ted, I'll give this a try.
GT