Mordants in Chopin's Polonaise Op.53 in Ab Major

[jugular]

So I'm currently tackling this piece and I can't figure out the best way to do the annoying mordants in the bars before the Bb Minor Melodic run. The fingering suggested is to play the first G with 1, then the octave with 4 which allows you to mordant the Ab with 5 and then back to G with 5...essentially 1,4,5,4 (same for the Ab,Bb,Ab mordant). I've been doing slow trilling exercises with 4 and 5, and I have definitely seen improvement but it's nowhere near the level of fluidity it needs to be to make the mordant sound smooth.

For those of you who have performed this piece, I was wondering what you do for these mordants? Luckily I only have to play them twice.

[ted]

I could never do the first of the pair at all when I was young, and just crushed it ;  nobody knew or cared. Then one day many years later, as with many initially difficult movements, I found it was easy, but I haven't the slightest idea why. I don't think it is a "trick" of any sort, just the result of  general accumulated grind on my Virgil Practice Clavier making my fingers stronger I suppose.

I am just answering for interest's sake. I don't play much classical and never perform so the replies of others will be more relevant. It's a nice piece though. I've played it since I was a kid and it always gives me a kick, even at sixty-five.

[invictious]

1 3 4 3 would be what I suggest.
Also, try relaxing your thumb when you hit the mordent - there is no need to keep the thumb extended.

[ajspiano]

I play that particular one 1434 - not the most conventional, but it works for me. Not that straight forward either, requires proper arm motion, and a relaxed thumb as was pointed out above..

1454 is plainly uncomfortable (or at least it was when I learnt the heroic, I'm a lot more proficient with 4/5 now so maybe I could make it work).

1343 would cause me a pretty severe wrist twist.

[nearenough]

For me, 1-3-4-3 in both mordents. 1-4-5-4 is too difficult and I can't play them quickly enough.
The other problem is do you play the four notes as haveing equal time values: .... or play and hesitate the first note, and snap out the next 3 upper notes faster: .  ...
Horowitz seems to do the latter where Rubinstein the former, blurring the 3 notes somehow. I'll have to listen to various performers. It's on my list for my next piano lesson (one every 10 years). Now I am 74 so it has been proven to be a monumental bug for quite a while.

[jugular]

For me, 1-3-4-3 in both mordents. 1-4-5-4 is too difficult and I can't play them quickly enough.
The other problem is do you play the four notes as haveing equal time values: .... or play and hesitate the first note, and snap out the next 3 upper notes faster: .  ...
Horowitz seems to do the latter where Rubinstein the former, blurring the 3 notes somehow. I'll have to listen to various performers. It's on my list for my next piano lesson (one every 10 years). Now I am 74 so it has been proven to be a monumental bug for quite a while.

Yes I saw a video of Horowitz playing this on YouTube and he plays it as a mordant instead of four straight 16th notes like many performers I've heard. He also uses 1-4-5-4, but he was a professional concert pianist so I'm sure his 4-5 trill was very well developed.

I've been practising with 1-3-4-3 and I'm getting used to having to quickly jump into the octaves following the mordant so I will continue using this fingering. However, I am still practicing my 4-5 trill in hopes that I can one day substitute in the 1-4-5-4 fingering since it makes the passage easier for the hands.

[invictious]

I recommend Rafal Blechacz's recording, where he drags the first note of the 16th notes to prepare for the next three notes. It works out nicely, as it turns out.

[david456103]

I've always used 1-4-5-4, and have never had problems with that section. But again, my hands are big.

[johnmar78]

Jug, I played this piece and recorded in 2008. I have not got a big hands, but I learned to use 4/5 fingers. It was hard at the beginning...but once you have masttered. It was nothing.If you can focus moving your finger independently especially on 4/5 finger. You can do anything triils even combined with 3, or 1., It is just a matter of tome and develpoment. I hope this helps.