I hate doing fingering myself

[harpogrames]

First a little about me: I've have owned a piano for 3 years and been playing around with it for some time but in the last year or so I've starting getting serious about learning to read music and play some classical. Apart from piano I sing, play guitar and diatonic and chromatic harmonica. I played in a band for many years.

I am now 30 and as I've grown older I've become pretty compulsive about learning things right. The only thing worse than finding out you spend a lot of time practising something wrong is to not know whether you are practising correctly. I wan't to be sure that the time and energy I invest takes me in the right direction.

So now I am working on Clair De Lune and got some good routine for bars #1-#40. I have used load of time figuring out and writing down almost all fingering.  The problem is I think it takes me to long before I decide on a fingering and it is kind of keeping me from progressing into the piece sometimes. Also, I am obsessed by the thought that my fingering are all wrong and I will have to unlearn and relearn everything in the end.

Is it possible to get an edition with COMPLETE fingering?
Is somebody maybe willing to upload a scan of their sheet with added fingerings?
Is is stupid to assume that there is a single "correct" fingering so I should keep figuring it out on my own?
Maybe the only smart thing to do is to get a good teacher (or o psychiatrist) 

[outin]

I know how you feel. I don't actually hate it, but when you would like to learn something quickly and you have a score with no fingerings even to help you get started, it sucks...

But it can also be interesting and it is a must. You just have to do it yourself (or get a teacher, but I assume some of those would require you to do it anyway). Because we have different hands. What works for me doesn't necessarily work for you.

It can also be quite a waste of time, if you take the written fingerings as given, take your time to learn it and then when you try to speed up the piece you cannot or the fingerings just don't work when the piece is put together. I should know, because I do that all the time. And it's just because I am lazy at first and don't want to change what someone else has figured out 

[harpogrames]

Thank you very much for the fast reply, I hardly finished my coffee 

Of course "hate" is a strong word, you are right that it can be interesting. And ultimately it will be part of ones own musical expression, so I guess I'll have to get used to it!

So what is a good strategy? Of course I try to make the fingering as easy an comfortable as possible. And with easy parts there may be several easy ways to do it so I pretty much pick the first that comes to mind.

But in the difficult parts you will have difficult fingering. I see two main reasons for it being difficult:
1.  The sequence of movements or muscles involved are unusual and requires your brain to adapt to it - So you practice!
2. The movements are akward, physically impossible at high speed.

Now #1 would obviously be regarded as the correct fingering and #2 the wrong. So how do you tell the difference before starting practice?

Maybe you will develop a "repertoire" of general movements that you know works for you?

(And yes I am totally overthinking this )

[harpogrames]

It can also be quite a waste of time, if you take the written fingerings as given, take your time to learn it and then when you try to speed up the piece you cannot or the fingerings just don't work when the piece is put together. 

Very good point, I'll keep that in mind.

I had a look at youtube, there is a fellow "hughsun" who actually goes through the whole piece

Unfortunatly (for me) he focuses on making the fingering possible for people with small hands and I have rather long fingers so I find the "small hands" tricks rather distracting. E.g. in an arpeggio I always prefer to use as many fingers as possible before moving/crossing over.

I seen "Henle Verlag" mentioned a lot for their good fingerings, do you have experience with those? Are the fingerings completely written out? I guess it would hurt to get some ideas.

[outin]

So what is a good strategy? Of course I try to make the fingering as easy an comfortable as possible. And with easy parts there may be several easy ways to do it so I pretty much pick the first that comes to mind.

You can always have different sheets with fingerings and work out our own from them

But in the difficult parts you will have difficult fingering. I see two main reasons for it being difficult:
1.  The sequence of movements or muscles involved are unusual and requires your brain to adapt to it - So you practice!
2. The movements are akward, physically impossible at high speed.

Now #1 would obviously be regarded as the correct fingering and #2 the wrong. So how do you tell the difference before starting practice?

You don't always, I'm afraid. You should just try it at correct tempo already in the beginning (even if you mostly do slow practice). Also when working on small segments, you should every now and then try to play the whole thing through to see if it works.

Maybe you will develop a "repertoire" of general movements that you know works for you?

Oh yes, the ones above our level have lots of those

[outin]

Unfortunatly (for me) he focuses on making the fingering possible for people with small hands and I have rather long fingers so I find the "small hands" tricks rather distracting. E.g. in an arpeggio I always prefer to use as many fingers as possible before moving/crossing over.

Yes, I think people with shorter fingers play differently to those with long fingers. And it's not only that, the palm size makes a big difference as well.

I seen "Henle Verlag" mentioned a lot for their good fingerings, do you have experience with those? Are the fingerings completely written out? I guess it would hurt to get some ideas.

I don't have any of those, too expensive 

[harpogrames]

You should just try it at correct tempo already in the beginning (even if you mostly do slow practice). Also when working on small segments, you should every now and then try to play the whole thing through to see if it works.

I've actually started utilizing this method recently and it makes good sense. There usually a lot of mistakes in the beginning but I just focus on the hand movements and then work on the detailes afterwards.

Still, I am really bugged on how to do a good LH fingering in measure #41-#42

[outin]

I think other people on this forum will be able to help you, just wait. I have never played any Debussy...

[unholeee]

I had the same issue, then i read somewhere, pick one and just stick to it.

Now I will only change if its painful or awkward at tempo. it's not such a big a deal. I imagine you will learn more from tackling other pieces and coming back to it again.

[outin]

Now I will only change if its painful or awkward at tempo. it's not such a big a deal.

I guess you have big hands? Because to me it is a big deal especially with these romantic composers. Avoiding tension is always a problem.

I tried the pick one and stick to it approached and got nowhere.

[unholeee]

negatory, mine are small, for my size too (I cant play the rach 2 opening bars, either hand, but that doesn't say a lot hah - can only reach about a 9th if not playing keys between comfortably). In saying that my teachers are smaller than mine, but somehow - better stretch & flexibility.

Well you must of got somewhere, being able to figure out which ones didn't fit? You should probably post the specific sections you have issues for someone to help.

[outin]

Well you must of got somewhere, being able to figure out which ones didn't fit? You should probably post the specific sections you have issues for someone to help.

I was discussing fingerings on a more general level, but he/she already did, a few posts above. 

"good LH fingering in measure #41-#42 "
In case you missed it the piece is Clair de Lune

[outin]

negatory, mine are small, for my size too (I cant play the rach 2 opening bars, either hand, but that doesn't say a lot hah - can only reach about a 9th if not playing keys between comfortably). In saying that my teachers are smaller than mine, but somehow - better stretch & flexibility.

You're a guy right? Try struggling to play an octave

[davidjosepha]

You're a guy right? Try struggling to play an octave

I've always wondered about that...are you severely limited in your repertoire because you can't comfortable reach an octave? I can't remember the last piece I played that didn't have octaves in it.

[outin]

I'm not that advanced, so there's still much to play without octaves.

I can do left hand. If I couldn't it would be really limiting. The right hand I think will get there with a lot of exercise because I am seeing improvement.

My teacher has been helping me with ways to get over the occasional ones in the right hand, but there are pieces that would now be impossible because of the fast repeated octaves.

I love Chopin but couldn't do prelude nro 20 because of the large chords in the right hand. Pity, because I like the piece.

Then again most of baroque is fine and since I love Scarlatti I won't run out of pieces very soon 

I really don't know how the little kids play all the stuff they do, you know the Asians in youtube? 

[harpogrames]

Just so happens, I was offered a free piece to download from this site and the Urtext version of Clair De Lune actually suggeste the same fingering for measure #41 as I had come up with myself. I'll stick to this