What to learn...

[scherzo123]

Hi...I need new pieces that are my level and not way over the top. Any suggestions? I'd prefer if you suggest works by Beethoven, Liszt, Brahms, Debussy, Rachmaninoff, Scriabin, or Prokofiev that are my level. I'm OK with scales and my arpeggios are improving and not too bad. My signature lists the pieces that I'm learning. The scherzo is a bit over my level, and the La Campanella is over the top, so please don't suggest pieces that difficult. Pieces about the difficulty of the Chopin scherzo are OK. My repertoire is pretty small: Chopin Fantasie-Impromptu, Chopin "Ocean" Etude Op.25 No.12, Liszt Liebestraum No.3, Mozart Piano Sonata No.10 K330 (1st mvt.), Mozart Piano Sonata No.11 K331 (3rd mvt.), Beethoven Piano Sonata Op.27 No.2 (1st mvt.), and Bach's Prelude and Fugue BWV 847.

[williampiano]

Judging by your repertoire, I'd suggest you take a look at Brahms' Capriccios and Ballades.
Also look into some of Scriabin's Impromptus. They're not played commonly, but they're quite nice and probably around your level.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

Rachmaninoff etude Op. 33 No. 8? 

AKA Op. 33 No. 7

AKA Op. 33 No. 5

AKA Op. 39 No. N/A

You got this one in the bag dude.  It's like four pages long and only the third page has the fast scales and stuff. 

[davidjosepha]

You got this one in the bag dude.  It's like four pages long and only the third page has the fast scales and stuff. 

Have you played any of the etudes tableaux? I want to get a book of them, but I'm worried they'll be too hard. Rachmaninoff is so great though.

[scherzo123]

Anybody else?

[rachmaninoff_forever]

Have you played any of the etudes tableaux? I want to get a book of them, but I'm worried they'll be too hard. Rachmaninoff is so great though.

If you can play Op. 23 No. 5, then you can play some of the etude tableaux.  Why don't you try Op. 33 No. 8?  I think that it's quite a bit easier than Op. 23 No. 5 so it might be a good place to start.

It's four pages long and there's only one page of fast scales.  the rest you should be able to handle no problem cause it's a pretty slow piece.

And why does it matter whether or not you can play the etudes?  I can't play Prokofiev 2nd, but I bought the score anyways!

No, surprisingly, I haven't played any etudes.  I've screwed around and half assed a couple here and there, but never finished any.

But yeah, I started learning it today, so you should join me! 

[j_menz]

And why does it matter whether or not you can play the etudes?  I can't play Prokofiev 2nd, but I bought the score anyways!

I believe everyone should have a few "aspirational" scores lying around.

[davidjosepha]

If you can play Op. 23 No. 5, then you can play some of the etude tableaux.  Why don't you try Op. 33 No. 8?  I think that it's quite a bit easier than Op. 23 No. 5 so it might be a good place to start.

It's four pages long and there's only one page of fast scales.  the rest you should be able to handle no problem cause it's a pretty slow piece.

And why does it matter whether or not you can play the etudes?  I can't play Prokofiev 2nd, but I bought the score anyways!

No, surprisingly, I haven't played any etudes.  I've screwed around and half assed a couple here and there, but never finished any.

But yeah, I started learning it today, so you should join me! 

Thanks, I'll definitely pick up the ET sometime soon...I don't want to order them now because they might not get here before next week, and I'll be gone then, so I'll order them once I have a new address to ship to.

And yes, I can play 23/5. Well, I think I can. Ask 49410enrique, he'll give you the low down. I learned it a few months ago, and it sounded pretty good, but it was kinda sloppy, so I've spent the last couple weeks relearning it and such. I've already got it about 10 times better than it used to be.

I believe everyone should have a few "aspirational" scores lying around.

dammit, now you're encouraging me to buy even more music I don't have time to play...although I guess having the Chopin etudes lying around counts, although I'm actually going to try to play one of them...I'll keep you updated, assuming I survive!

I know there are a few Chopin etudes that aren't too bad, but, of course, the ones I want to play are the hard ones

What "aspirational" (I continue to use the quotes since that's not a word according to Chrome's spellcheck) scores do you have lying around, j_menz? I thought you could play anything!

Edit: But on the topic of having too much to play, not enough time, after that thread a couple days ago about learning 100 pieces a year or something, I sat down to practice and consciously watched to see what I was doing that I could make more efficient, and I think I drastically increased the amount I've been getting done in a day. Like, possibly even doubling my output per hour. Which is cool, because besides time spent on Piano Street and sleeping, I spend basically all my time practicing piano, so I can't practice any more to get more done

[49410enrique]

... Ask 49410enrique, he'll give you the low down. I learned it a few months ago, and it sounded pretty good, but it was kinda sloppy, so I've spent the last couple weeks relearning it and such. I've already got it about 10 times better than it used to be.

...

indeed it has improved dramatically in such  a short amount of time. you're now going into your lessons w the new prof at a much better position technically and musically, thus becuase you're starting with a more refined product , you'll be able to complete it at a much higher level come jury time. and by then it will have 'seasoned' that is sometimes no matter how muc you practice it, you just need to live with certain pieces for a good amount  of time, or another analogy, like a good soup, all the ingredients might be there and it's cooked on the stove top. but for some reason you after you put it away for a day or more and then reheat it, it tastes better. the flavors had more time to develop. okay so maybe i'm hungry and i want soup, but it's still a good analogy!

.

_+_________________________________
Dear Scherzo123

i mull this over a little while longer to try and suggest pieces specifically by the composers you mentioned, but i'll also try to broden your horizons too with pehaps some incredibly fine music that you perhaps might not have considered

as for 'difficulty' and what it is over the top, that'll be your call, i wont' suggest pieces that are approachable only by pro's or have incredibly virtuosic demands, but i will push you to be courageous and really try to stretch yourself a little. 
this piece is one of those that with a solid basic technique, the study of it will help develop the technique neccessary to play it convincingly at full tempo.  you'll want to click into youtube for the description. the henselt etudes of op 2 and 5 are considered some of the greatest of the reptertore (perhaps some of the 'greatest' in the chopin/liszt tradition that are most 'ignored' sadly...)

for "Russian" you should look at the Medtner Romantic Skteches for the young. the demands are not nearly what they are in his other works but they are FAR FROM EASY! (again the yt descritpion gives a good account as to why/how come).  Rachmaninoff himself considred Medtner to be one of the greatest and most important composers alive at his time (so it's been said, don't ask me for a citation i don't have it right now).

I. Prelude: Pastorale [0:00]
II. Bird's Tale [2:18]
III. Prelude: Tempo di Sarabanda [4:55]
IV. Skazka (Tale): Scherzo [7:01]
V. Prelude: Tender Reproach [9:39]
VI. Skazka (Tale): The Organ Grinder [12:48]
VII. Prelude: Hymn [18:19]
VIII. Skazka (Tale): The Beggar [21:57]


Griffes, man i love this stuff, the 'american impressionist' his later style began to sound like some sort of Scriabin-Debussy hybrid with it's own modern flavor though, as in having roots in the former but definately looking forward and beyond,

for a bridge composer (you asked about Beethoven), Hummel was one of the THE virtuosos of his day and like Beethoven began to take things from traditional classical to a more romantic slant. though sometimes they are painted as 'rivals' Beethoven and Hummel had a deep respect for each other. this short lovely work might be a good intro to him (his sonatas are incredible if you really want a big work, look into those!)

will try to come back with some stuff from the standard composers you mentioned but these guys are also very much worth exploring not just what i posted here. there's a lot more to them!

[j_menz]

What "aspirational" (I continue to use the quotes since that's not a word according to Chrome's spellcheck) scores do you have lying around, j_menz? I thought you could play anything!

My publicity machine is obviously in overdrive. Would that that were true.

I have quite a lot of aspirational stuff lying around. Some of it I could do if I were to put in a bit of effort and some of it would require great deal of effort indeed.

In the latter category, pieces that I really want to play one day are Tausig's Ride of the Valkyries transcription, Alkans Concerto for Solo Piano and Liszt's transcription of the Winterreise.

[scherzo123]

Thanks 49410enrique, you're the best when it comes to this . Also thanks to the other people that gave me suggestions. The composers and pieces that you mentioned are pretty good, but I can't wait for the other suggestions! Thanks!

[davidjosepha]

My publicity machine is obviously in overdrive. Would that that were true.

I have quite a lot of aspirational stuff lying around. Some of it I could do if I were to put in a bit of effort and some of it would require great deal of effort indeed.

In the latter category, pieces that I really want to play one day are Tausig's Ride of the Valkyries transcription, Alkans Concerto for Solo Piano and Liszt's transcription of the Winterreise.

Ah cool, cool. I await your recordings in the Audition Room. Although you haven't posted anything there, I think you said. That makes me sad.

I'd keep around Rachmaninoff sonata no. 1 and Liszt sonata in B minor, but it'd just depress me

[49410enrique]

(went through various resources i nomrally consult to pull out what i hope are at least interesting starts, at the least should you choose not to go w any, you'll be that much closer to choosing by knowing what 'not to learn' lol )
beethoven-

Fantasy in G-, Op.77

"Contemporaneous with the Sixth Symphony and the Piano Concerto No. 5, this work is one of Beethoven's rare forays into a form distinguished mainly by a loose, improvisational structure. Even working within this formal freedom, however, Beethoven invested the Fantasia with the elements of drama and struggle that so readily characterize his symphonies, sonatas, and similar works. The Fantasia begins with two descending scalar passages often thought of as posing a question or suggesting doubt or indecision. These are immediately followed by a somewhat melancholy adagio passage that seems to start in the middle of a phrase, as if confused or uncertain. The scales are heard again, as is the Adagio music. Beethoven inserts a pause after each one of these exchanges, as if to suggest doubt, or to present each as a separate episode. There follows a happy, lively passage which interleaves with the descending scales, pauses included between them again. Finally, these hesitant exchanges cease with the appearance of a jovial theme. Eventually it turns nervous and tentative, then falls apart, yielding to an ascending run. A new theme, marked Allegro, is presented and appears determined at the outset to outlive its thematic predecessors. It, too, dies away, however, and the seemingly ubiquitous scales return to reintroduce a sense of menace. The direction of the piece now seems in a state of flux, with one new idea struggling to take shape but finding the endeavor difficult. Finally, a thematic life is born, but by way of evolution rather than via a sudden seizing of power, as previous themes had tried. This Presto subject grows and casts sunlight over the remainder of the piece, even weathering a return of the scales. All the themes are actually related here, as it turns out, though it will appear difficult at the outset, and even midway though the piece, to hear it as a theme-and-variations scheme. This work, which concludes triumphantly, remains one of the most interesting compositions of its kind: clearly there is a story of struggle here, which, through persistence and faith, ends in triumph. Beethoven dedicated this work to Count Franz von Brunsvik. It was first published in Leipzig and London in 1810"i'm still trying to find a good source of info on the musicology of this, this one seems to get 'skipped over a lot', it's probably my favorite one though

i love this piece, but it scares my (just me personally don't take this as a warning of sorts, i just love it so much that i think i still need some musical maturity in certain regards on my end to play it how i want to , how i hear it, how i feel it. sure it's played a lot, but for a great reason!)

Brahms Intermezzo, Op. 118, No. 2 in A major

"Brahms' Opp. 116 through 119 are all devoted to the solo piano realm and are made up of 20 pieces, his last forays in the genre. This Intermezzo in A major is one of his longer and more profound efforts from these sets. It is also one of the loveliest piano pieces Brahms produced from any period.

It begins with one of those quirky Brahmsian melodies: while one might well assert its flowing lyricism and serene manner would be equally at home in the lieder genre, its harmonic quirkiness—masterly quirkiness, albeit—would strongly test that contention, and the graceful but peculiar leap that comes on the sixth note of the main theme is clearly better suited to the keyboard realm. That said, the music, especially in the outer sections, is still songful and lushly Romantic, its main lines flowing and stately, its harmonies warm in their shifting and ever-imaginative turns. The middle section features another lovely theme, but its mood divulges a measure of tension, if not agitation, as it progresses less assuredly. Yet, before the music can erupt or turn darker, it yields back to the lovely main theme. This six-minute work will have appeal even to listeners whose tastes generally stand outside the borders of Romantic and post-Romantic music."

"Children's Corner was written for Debussy's three-year-old daughter, Claude-Emma (nicknamed "Chou-Chou"), and bears the following dedication: "to my dear Chou-Chou, with the tender apologies of her father for what is to follow." The composer's sentiments were presumably an acknowledgement of the inevitable loss of innocence that comes with growing up, but his words take on a darker, more prophetic, hue in hindsight—Claude-Emma died from diphtheria only a year after Debussy's own death from cancer in 1918.

Though ostensibly children's pieces, the miniatures that make up Children's Corner are not meant for children to play; rather they are meant to evoke the mood and essence of childhood, and the fantasies of youth. The titles, all of them in English, reflect not only the rampant anglophilia in Paris at the time of composition (and Debussy's own affection for England), but also Chou-Chou's relationship with her English nanny, who helped to choose them. The set, as a whole, captures the particular charm of Debussy's piano music, in spirit if not in style. It possesses great humor and lightness, real beauty, and deceptive technical difficulties.

The first movement, Doctor Gradus ad Parnassum, is a lighthearted reference to Muzio Clementi's well-known piano exercises, Gradus ad Parnassum, published in 1817. It parodies a child performing these exercises, initially tearing through the bright, fast passages and eventually becoming distracted, bored, and finally slamming down the final cadence with relief. This movement looks forward to Debussy's later Études, in which he lampoons the five-finger exercises of Carl Czerny. The second movement is about a toy elephant, and is called Jimbo's Lullaby; the ponderous gait of the elephant and the lightness of its stuffing are illustrated in whole-tone harmony. The third movement Serenade for the Doll is a quick, dance-like song for a little girl's favorite toy, while Snow is Dancing gives us a picture of falling ice crystals.

The Little Shepherd tells a story of a young shepherd, playing his pipe, dancing around the meadow, resting by a tree, and finally falling asleep. The last movement, Golliwogg's Cake Walk, was inspired by American ragtime music, which, considered plebian in its native country, had taken Europe by storm. Debussy also managed a tweak at Wagner, by quoting the famous Tristan & Isolde theme, and following it with a pianistic chuckle. It's title comes from Golliwogg, a doll that was popular in Chou-Chou's day, and a popular children's game associated with the doll. The game involved walking to the music (the steps required are specific, and seeing kids perform them is adorable) and whoever looked most enthused about getting cake received a slice.

The Children's Corner Suite is certainly not characteristic of Debussy's ephemeral style—which by now had fully developed impressionistic qualities—however, it is a delightful work, and it showcases Debussy's ability to create unique tonal colors."

Prokofiev
Scherzo (from op.12)

another great piece awaiting a 'decent write up' i've been sourcing stuff but this one also gets less attention vs others in the set. still it's fantastic.

.  Scriabin is all over the place and my generall reccommendation is for you to simply start at the beginning, i.e his early compositions listen to the waltzes and impromptus and early (first set) of mazurkas i think it's important to really understand him , where he 'came from' to grasp where he was 'going'.

but this is a really nice prelude, should you just decide to skip what i think is probably important development, that is you don't really NEED to do this but I think it would really help down the line to start with earlier works before going into the later ones. still this is op 11 so we really can't say he moving into new tonal territory here and it is pretty straightforward what you should probably do w the music from an even quick glance at score

this is one of my favorite Rachmaninoff pieces of all. i hear (strong) influeces by the slow movement of the Tchaikovsky symphony no 5 (ii). the other ones get so much more attention form the set but i think this is the BEST one. (probably that whole, 'loud and fast' is better mentality at play).

[scherzo123]

Very helpful, thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Let's see what else do I need...

Rachmaninoff (The one you suggested was pretty good, but I'm not into it right now. Now, it's his preludes that I want to do, so if you have any recommendations on that, that would be helpful)

Scriabin (The preludes I have already decided, including the one you suggested. Do you have any suggestions on etudes? That would help a lot as well)

Prokofiev (anything)