Question about Playing Baroque Music

[pianoplayer1224]

Hi,

I was just wondering when playing fast tempo fugues (such as Bach's P&F No.15 from WTC I), how do you achieve the non-legato touch required to create the "detached" sound which piano teachers seem to have an obsession with in Baroque pieces?  I have heard that moving the fingers from the knuckles while keeping the fingers flat is a way to achieve this touch, but for fast tempos I am not so sure if this is very effective.

Just wondering what others do to get this non-legato touch. Thanks

[j_menz]

Firstly, don't overdo the speed on this one, and don't aim for a single "detached" touch; it should range from legato through to quasi staccato. Do each voice seperately to see what works best keeping in mind that where the voices echo one another you need to make the touch the same (as a start, you may want to highlight a contrast later).

I suspect the problem isn't in your finger position, but rather that you do not have a clear mental picture of the sound you want. Use the seperate voice approach above to develop that and I think it should fall into place.

[pianoplayer1224]

Thanks for your advice.

I have done the separate work for this piece quite a while ago and am now working on just polishing the piece and ensuring that all the voices have the appropriate articulations, touch, and character.
My question about the non-legato touch also could apply not just to the P&F  but also to any fast tempo baroque piece such as the Courante from Bach's Partita in Bb no. 1, which I am also learning and trying to get the non-legato touch right. This one is allegro vivace.

[werq34ac]

Why non-legato for the courant (or was the corrente, I don't remember which. And yes there is a difference, one is french and the other italian and so one is faster than the other, I forget which) (I assume you mean the running notes). I personally used a non-overlapping sound. Though I do know what kind of touch you are talking about, the "Bach touch." I've heard that you use the wrist a lot, but I could be wrong. And in using the Bach touch, you actually play slower because it makes up for the energy lost in the reduction of speed.

[pianoplayer1224]

I've been reading up on the partita, and it seems as though it is an Italian Corrente, and therefore must be quite fast (vivace). By non-legato touch, I mean a touch that is neither staccato nor legato, but just slightly detached to ensure clarity, which is supposedly (according to my teacher) achieved by keeping fingers flat and moving from the knuckle. I find that this way of achieving the non-legato touch to be impractical as it involves excess movement making it difficult to play fast. How does everyone else get this detached ("baroque" or "Bach", or "non-legato" touch) when playing fast pieces?

[ajspiano]

I might suggest that you first ensure that your arm remains comfortable, then.. 

..whilst playing somewhat slowly at first, getting your arm in position over each key (and without necessarily having your fingers curved or flat - just comfortable) that you attempt to play a light finger staccato from the top knuckle where the finger tip takes a very comfortable path into the key. No grabbing or pushing.

Take it very slowly at first, after each note allow your hand/arm/wrist etc. to settle and be free of any tension.

Once you basically achieve this with physical each you can speed up and pay attention to the desired sound, as J_menz said. 

[pianoplayer1224]

Thanks, that sounds far more practical than keeping flat fingers (not my idea), and I will be certain to give your ways a try. I've been experimenting with different things myself, and am glad to hear that others do have more efficient ways of playing Baroque music.   

[ajspiano]

Thanks, that sounds far more practical than keeping flat fingers (not my idea), and I will be certain to give your ways a try. I've been experimenting with different things myself, and am glad to hear that others do have more efficient ways of playing Baroque music.   

I forgot to say, to get an idea for the "feel" and direct path - suppose you are to start with your RH - using your LH, tap a relaxed RH finger down into the key. You will feel how direct and exact the path is, there are no excess pressures applied by the RH finger in inefficient directions..

..Glenn Gould supposedly did a LOT of work like this.

While you may start this slow, you need to execute movements quickly..  and bring it to speed. The slow is perhaps required because you need to ensure the lack of tension, if you do it wrong and fast you will build up tension pretty quickly.

Lastly, do not consider this a be all end all kind of thing. The fingers will never operate in isolation like this in reality. This is just about training them to move light and fast..  quick accurate articulations...  this should absolutely not feel strenuous in any way.