Overly Asked disgusting question: How long it takes to really play...

[nocturnetr]

 I am an old begginer, I am 14 years old and it's my second day with a piano. I learnt one or two pages of Wohltemperierte Klavier I Prelude No. 1 . I don't have a teacher yet but I am planning to start lessons soon. My actual goal is to play the Chopin Nocturne Op. 9-1 in a few years. But I love really hard things like Rachmaninoff or Prokofiev Concertos, Chopin Ballade 1 and would like to learn them before I die (I will play the Funeral March at my funeral... Or... Wait?) This may be the greatest ambition of a beginner. (I currently practice for 15 hours a day, I know that's really long, soon my school will start so I will be able to practice only for 35 hours a week...) My question is can an old begginer like me can play hardest pieces of piano repertoire, if "yes" how long it takes to play hardest pieces of piano repertoire? I have time till I die... Sorry for my absurd and overly asked question and bad English

[outin]

I am an old begginer, I am 14 years old

YOU ARE NOT OLD!!

As for your other questions, I sincerely do not know but definitely before you die unless you drop dead before reaching my age 

[nocturnetr]

 I meant that, I'm old to start playing piano. Arghh hit slower!!

[asuhayda]

You're NEVER too old to start playing piano! 

To your query.  Ambition is a great start!  However, do not set your goals too high right away.  It will take time and practice.  How long entirely depends on your enthusiam, practice, discipline, talent, etc...  To put a number of years to reaching your goal is difficult because it's different for everyone.  Rachmaninoff Concerti are about as hard as it gets.. So, it is going to take you quite some time before you reach that level.  Which is fine!  There is a lot of beautiful and extremely challenging music to be played in the mean time.

My top suggestion is to get a teacher!  Without a teacher, your chances of playing any Rachmaninoff concerti are approaching zero.

Also,  be careful not to practice too much.  Your enthusiasm is admirable, but if you practice too much, you could be doing more harm then good.  Plus, you'll eventually burn out.  Even Rubenstein only practiced 2 to 4 hours a day.  4 hours should usually be the ceiling.  In fact, this is the suggestion that was made by my University professor.  Just like exericise, you can practice too much.  Your brain cannot concentrate for that long!

So to answer your question, YES! You can play these pieces, they are not unreachable.  However, it will take time and you should not attempt them now.. you will only frustrate yourself.  With no training, you will not be asble to play them well anyway.


Best of luck to you!

[chadbrochill17]

You practice for 15 HOURS a day? That is EXTREMELY way too much. I would expect that amount of practice is actually detrimental. Seriously, I love playing piano, but try to do some other stuff with your life. You are after all only 14. So young.

[j_menz]

I started when I was about your age. My advice; get that teacher and cut the practice down to a reasonable and sustainable level.

There is no reason to believe your "late start" will stop you playing the pieces you list, and not that much later than if you had started earlier.

[lloyd_cdb]

15 hours is absurd to do on a regular basis, but having a piano for all of a couple days it's not that terrible to mess around with it obsessively for a bit.  Long-term, though, even 35 a week is still aggressive given that you weren't sent to a conservatory 10 years ago.  Even on days where it's pouring outside and I'm ridiculously bored, I won't play more than 3 hours.  Normally I play 1-1.5 hrs a day in 20-30 minute segments. Our pitiful human brains only have so much concentration power, and our pitiful human limbs can only sustain themselves for so long  

There is much more that goes into playing than just hours spent at the piano bench.  I could sit there for 6 hours a day hammering away at middle C and clearly not learn anything.  Once you get a teacher, make sure you spend all the time in front of your piano doing "smart practice".  Smart practice is taxing on the body and brain and will probably even prevent you from being able to practice 5 hours a day.

Lastly, everyone learns at different speeds.  Set short term goals with your teacher and work efficiently towards them.  The decade long learning goals can often times leave you discouraged as the deadline approaches.

[iansinclair]

14 is old?  Oh deary me.  What does that make me?  Don't answer that...

Generally agree with all of the above.  Keep the practicing within reason, but don't lose your enthusiasm -- it's wonderful.  And do get a teacher!

And, by the way, the Chopin Op. 9 #1 nocturne is nowhere near as easy as it looks, at least to play it really well.  Keep in mind that it -- and for that matter, most of the pieces you mention -- require a great deal of musicality to do right, as well as technical competence.

[chopin2015]

Agreed. 3 hours a day is plenty on a regular basis. You can even cut down to 2 hours and do as many as 5 or 6(if 6, split up hours) once, no more than twice a week. Stay organized. Is this your first time learning music?

[ajspiano]

You can even cut down to 2 hours and do as many as 5 or 6(if 6, split up hours) once, no more than twice a week.

Not that I'm suggesting it for OP - OP, that is WAY too much for you and completely unsustainable.

But for the more experienced it's really not that big a deal to do A LOT of practice. Its not for everyone, but its not a bad thing if you plan it out properly. Mrs Lisitsa spoke in an interview of consistently doing 12-14 hour days.

Her practice is ofcourse probably very well refined and effective, whatever the length. This will not be the case for OP.

[chopin2015]

We don't even know if this is his first instrument. If it is, then yes. You are probably more convincing than I. Some kids are taught music at an early age, such as choir and music theory and getting on track with an instrument is not a big deal at a later age. Fourteen is not much later, it is a good, solid age.

[ajspiano]

I should reiterate..

Sorry chopin2015, I quoted/wrote the wrong thing.. I didn't mean to say that 2-3 hours is a bad idea for OP. That may be reasonable. I meant that 15 hours was insane in this situation but not necessarily insane generally.. which seemed to be the overall tone of the thread.

[chopin2015]

Oh.
I totally wish I could do 15 hours. If you can actually produce something for the entire duration of a 15 hour practice, then BRAVO! If not, it is best to stay organized and know when to stop playing for the day/night.

[ajspiano]

Oh.
I totally wish I could do 15 hours.

You're life experience builds a tolerance to these things. I played in bands as a drummer/guitarist/singer..  I was OP's age the first time I was expected to perform for 4 hours in a single evening (hourly set breaks ofcourse).. and I did 4 hour gigs as a pianist once a week in a hotel not too much later than that.

For a while I had a most days a week where I did 6-7 straight hours teaching because I temporarily took over another teachers load while she was on holiday for 2 months, plus practice on top.. as well as rehearsing and performing in bands.

2-3 hours practice is like a blink of an eye to me. I don't frequently play all day because life doesn't allow it at the moment, but its not difficult mentally when you have a performance/teaching history of that nature.

[chopin2015]

I do not think my hands could take 15 hours! I can do no more than 3 hours on a school day(by the time I get home and get ready, I do not have much strength or time to do more than that, my college is on a huge hill). On my days off, I get to do 5 hours or more, until my parents get home. I cannot take more than 3 consecutive hours on the piano because it is so loud!! I am always confused as to why they call it piano

[ajspiano]

I do not think my hands could take 15 hours! I can do no more than 3 hours on a school day(by the time I get home and get ready, I do not have much strength or time to do more than that, my college is on a huge hill). On my days off, I get to do 5 hours or more, until my parents get home. I cannot take more than 3 consecutive hours on the piano because it is so loud!! I am always confused as to why they call it piano

Its full name is the piano-forte, because it can be either soft or loud, where as its predecessors could not.

If you didn't have to go to school you'd find you could handle more practice. Music professionals only have to do music, thus they aren't worn down by other responsibilities so much.

[outin]

Both piano playing and going to school involve a lot of sitting down. Unfortunately it just isn't healthy (especially for someone growing up) to sit for 10-15 hours a day. So it's obvious that in the long run the practice time should be kept in reasonable limit. For us older folks it doesn't matter quite as much, we have often ruined our physique already 

[chopin2015]

If you can successfully ACCOMPLISH 15 hours..
I have an audition for Piano major in Nov.; Even music school has regimes I will have to follow and in turn sacrifice the time to work on pieces on my "to do" list. It is just life. Once I win my fortune, I will buy a house in the mountains with a water front, and have a piano and a doppio piano and a pipe organ, and you will be invited, AJ.
 Haha, I know that. In Russia it is forte-piano. But usually people say "oh, I'm gonna go play piano" and then they bang out some stuff!

[chopin2015]

Its full name is the piano-forte, because it can be either soft or loud, where as its predecessors could not.

If you didn't have to go to school you'd find you could handle more practice. Music professionals only have to do music, thus they aren't worn down by other responsibilities so much.

What about work? LOL

 XD

[ajspiano]

What about work? LOL
XD

Yes well that was my point about music professionals..   getting paid for your musical endeavors is the easiest way to justify putting a more than normal amount of time into the task.

Thanks for the invite by the way

EDIT:
...if you're auditioning for a music major surely you're intending to generate at least some income out of music?

[nocturnetr]

 It's not my first insturment. I played classical guitar for 1,5 years, I was going to buy a proffesional classical guitar but I bought a piano instead  I was practicing it 60 hours a week but my school time was shorter. Now I can practice maximum 35 hours a week... Theory lessons are limitless because my father is a proffesional musician

[chopin2015]

Great! Sounds like you have the support you need! Good luck! Just make sure to rest your hands and ears and body enough and you will have many years of music ahead of you!

-J

[camille101]

Hello,
I was in pretty much the same situation you're in now.  I had only realised my desire to play piano at 14 years old, and you do feel disadvantaged when you see nine-year-olds playing Chopin etudes all over the internet, but don't be discouraged.  You don't have to complete every grade in order (I did the 5th grade after one year with a teacher), and you MUST practice all the technique: scales, arpeggios etc.  To fast-track this, I would recommend Hanon's 'The Virtuoso Pianist in 60 exercises' (everyone says Hanon is torture, but it really isn't, it's actually highly beneficial to technique), in combination with other pieces that will help in development.  Also, on your first lesson tell your teacher your ambitions and make sure they are aware of your goals, and if the teacher is good enough, they will help you.  Please remember that teachers usually know best, and even if they give you a hard Bach piece that seems monotonous, uninteresting or boring, it will help you play the pieces you aspire to.

I learned Rach's C-Sharp prelude after about two and a half years, with a lot of devotion to practice.  The main trap people in your situation (in fact, almost ALL situations) fall into is comparing yourselves to others.  Don't do this.  It does nothing for your skill or self-esteem.  Playing piano takes a lifetime of hard work and mental strength, but its benefits far outweigh the negatives.
On another note, fourteen is not too old at all to start playing.  You get some people starting in their 30's, 40's, 60's, 70's...you have a whole life ahead of you with the potential to be filled with music!  Keep it up and best of luck to you.

[perprocrastinate]

(I currently practice for 15 hours a day, I know that's really long, soon my school will start so I will be able to practice only for 35 hours a week...)

How is it possible to practice for 15 hours a day? That would be getting up at 7 AM and practicing non-stop until 10 PM.

Madness. :O

[rachmaninoff_forever]

How is it possible to practice for 15 hours a day? That would be getting up at 7 AM and practicing non-stop until 10 PM.

Madness. :O

Valentina Lisitsa can do it!

[nocturnetr]

Actually I have limitless time, so I can practice 15 hours a day for a week... Then school starts and I have to learn B1-2 Level German in one year. I practice scales mostly, and try to learn the rest of Prelude in C. I have problems using both hands simultaneously, i.e I can play C major scale with both hands seperately at a fast tempo but I can't play them simultaneously (I don't know if it's the correct word ), what are your advices for me?

[camille101]

I can play C major scale with both hands seperately at a fast tempo but I can't play them simultaneously

Do you have a metronome?  It's well worth getting.  You need to set it at a slow enough tempo so that you can play the scale evenly with both hands, then gradually speed up after repeating the scale many times.  I'd also mention that Chopin believed C major is the hardest scale, so once you learn it, reward yourself.

[lloyd_cdb]

I can play C major scale with both hands seperately at a fast tempo but I can't play them simultaneously (I don't know if it's the correct word ), what are your advices for me?

Have patience.  It's extremely rare in life to have to coordinate your two hands at a very technical level, so your brain simply hasn't developed those skills.  Repetition tells your brain to stop being stubborn and just accept that you are going to learn piano

Just as an aside, there are many things you do that take coordination, but not necessarily at that technical of a level.  Typing is the best similarity I can think of to piano, but even in typing all you do is type as fast as you can while balancing accuracy.  In typing it's also extremely rare to use a finger in each hand simultaneously (only when you use shift).  Basically what I'm saying is that even the closest thing to piano you do on a normal basis is still drastically less complex.

[nocturnetr]

 Now, I can use my hands at the same time faster. I started at a slow tempo and got faster and faster until my speed was good... I bought Beyer Method also and I am trying to learn by video lessons for now. Looks like I'm not getting a teacher until I finish those video lessons because the teacher is worse than Andrew Somethingstranczyk. I have a few options for now. I will try to develop myself for a little time and get a teacher later.

[werq34ac]

What exactly do you work on in those 15 hours... I mean ideally should be practicing 4-5 hours a day, and yet I can only manage 3, and considering I have about 40-45 minutes of music to practice (for college auditions), I don't feel like it's enough. The only solution is "smart practice" like someone mentioned. You have to have specific goals in mind while you practice. Repetition is good, but you have to know what you are repeating and why you repeating it. Not satisfied with your scale? Figure out what was wrong with it and try again. Still not good enough? Figure out how you can fix what was wrong with it. Slow it down and try again. Finally got it? Play it one more time to ensure it wasn't a fluke. Then gradually speed it up back ensuring that what was wrong is definitely fixed.

Anyway, your goals are achievable for certain. And I don't think you should be doing 5 hours a day until you have more significant repertoire. Cut it down to 1-2 hours of FOCUSED practice and then when you feel like you aren't accomplishing enough, bring up your practice hours. But remember, you have to use your practice time efficiently.

[nocturnetr]

 I gave up any methods or video lessons, now I am just practicing scales again and again for hours to gain speed and control... After this year I will get a teacher. I am doing this because I lack the time and I am sure of that the teacher will do the same to increase my hand abilities.

[outin]

I gave up any methods or video lessons, now I am just practicing scales again and again for hours to gain speed and control...

I am not sure what you will benefit by just practicing scales for hours...Unless your goal is to be a scales player

Scales are fine as exercise, but they are not what piano playing is about IMO. Even if you don't have a teacher you should still try to learn some MUSIC. Easier pieces that you like. Learn to listen to your own playing and if it sounds the way you feel it should. It really isn't about speed, especially if your goal is to learn a Chopin Nocturne.