Chopin's Ocean Etude

[NDPitch]

Hey.  I was just wondering if you guys could maybe help me out, maybe with some techniques or tips specifically on Chopin's Ocean Etude Op. 25 No. 12.  

I've been working on it lately, and I'm having a problem.  I can roll the arpegios up the keys, but when those same notes come back down the keys, I have a brain lapse or something.  I just can't seem to do it.  I can roll up very well, and my hands just stumble on the way back down, hitting wrong notes and making everything sound awful.  

Does anyone have any advice on how I could correct this problem?

[jon]

Yes I need help with this also cause i have the same problem.I can go up perfectly but coming down i hesitate and can't seem to hit the repeated note with my pinky and thumb,so any help would be appreciated.

[shasta]

NDPitch and Jon

First, practice this piece in blocked chords.  You need to firmly establish your hand/arm positions before attempting the chords as arpeggios, or your eyes will get lost in the keys trying to "find" the next notes, particularly as you come back "down" the keys.  Start slowly at first and use a metronome.  Once you can nail the blocked chords at your starting speed, keep taking the metronome up in your next practice sections and repeat.

Next, practice in dotted rhythms, 2-fast, 2-slow, 4-fast, 4-slow, measure-fast, measure-slow... make up your own rhythm patterns....  This is a fabulous and under-utilized way to work on everything, from tricky patterns to fingerings to hand/arm positions.

Now, once you can play the entire piece in blocked chords at a good clip, and once you can play the whole piece in a generous assortment of dotted rhythms, it's just a matter of then NOT playing in dotted rhythms anymore, and there you have it!  Drop the metronome back some notches if you need to, but absolutely continue to use the metronome to maintain clean and steady arpeggios.  

DO NOT use the pedal as you practice (as tempting as it may be).  You need to be able to hear wrong notes and unevenness and correct them.

Now, at this point you may find that the "turn-arounds" at both the top and bottom of the arpeggios are sloppy and/or you miss a lot of notes.  Isolate all of these "turn-arounds" and work on them.  Perhaps in one practice session, only drill the turn-arounds at the "top", and the next practice session only drill the turn-arounds at the "bottom."  Play slowly, note by note, and use your metronome.  Carefully bring each of these up to speed with your metronome.

Good luck!

[shasta]

NDPitch

I just noticed that you referred to your motion as "roll."  One tip to keep in mind (that someone else had also metioned on this board previously) is that this entire piece is simply chords that are broken, NOT thumb-under arpeggios in the "rolling" sense.  Yes, ultimately the sound needs to be smooth, fluid, and wave-like, but try not to "roll" the chords.  The "roll" will be in the climax of each pattern, as you represent the waves of the ocean.  Try to simply move your hand from one chord block to the next, keeping your hands and fingers in a close relationship to the keys.  At full speed, you will not have time for extra motions.  Does this make sense?

[NDPitch]

Yeah, it makes sense.  I'll try all of the suggestions here!  They all seem like they will help a lot.  

One tip that I recieved from a friend of mine who can play the etude, also would seem to help out.  He said rather than go bottom to top to bottom in the apreggio, he suggested switching it around just as a practice tecnique.  Start at the top, or the "turn", and then go down, and then come back up.  He said that would help focus on descending back down the keys.

Any other suggestions?

[chopiabin]

Don't try to "walk" the keys. You have to sort of lift your hand  your hand horizontally without accenting the thumb or pinky. Also, make sure your leading with your wrist, not you elbow. Remember also that you want accents on the bottom and top of every run, and the notes in between these should not be too loud - you don't want a huge mess of sound.

Starting at the top and going down is a really good idea - my teacher had me do this.

[Antnee]

All of the suggestions have been very good. I just want to add another suggestion. The problem is hands together right? It could be a left hand problem. Since is it (usually) your weak hand and it's going down here, you have to make sure you have the hand movement completely up to snuff. When I say this I mean the thumb 'over' technique. It's naturally easier to make the left hand go up and right come down beacuse there is little thumb movement involved. The same thing the other way around. It's harder to go down with the left and more difficult to go up with the right. Since the left hand is going down, your left hand may be the problem. Make sure you are using the correct hand movements by quickly shifting your hand over properly. If it IS your left hand slowing you down, then you must get it above final speed hands seperate to exectue it at proper speed together This makes things much easier and decreases the risks of any bad habits.. I hope this helps.

[jlh]

I agree with Shasta.  I used these same techniques when I learned this piece and am convinced it's the only good way to learn it.  I probably wouldn't have gotten it up to speed without blocking the chords and using alternating rhythms of long and short notes.  

One other thing that's good to practice with on this etude is playing staccato -- that is... no pedal, and make it as dry and staccato as you can.  The value of this is it encourages finger articulation and a better ensemble between hands.  Both hands must be perfectly together for this piece to work, and practicing with a slow, dry staccato will help that.

[Sketchee]

I play this piece too!  I had problems going down as well.  Slow practice without the pedal has helped a lot, just as others said.  Practice--both HS and HT--just going down and rest for ascending arpeggios, also try vice versa.  When doing this you may way to do it a few times through stopping at the end of every 'block' to get the feel of each chord's position on the keyboard; again this is hands seperate and together.

I also found I really was in a hurry to hear that next bass note of the melody.  It helped a lot for me to just enjoy the sound of the arpeggios.  Just listening for every note really helped me get it up to speed.