Addicted to teacher (very long story but need help)

[grasoon]

Hello all from Thailand and sorry for the poor English,

I have been reading many interesting posts here for quite sometime now. I still cannot decide that should I join this wonderful forum because I am not a classical piano player like you guys. But I really need inputs on how I should proceed with my piano journey (a very struggling one)

I started playing piano very late. I’m now 38  and I’ve been playing play for about a year now (just be able to support myself financially with disturb my family’s budget).  My very first lessons started with Classical piano class at Yamaha Music School. I studied with them for about three months (before my hometown was hit by the biggest flood in my country’s history). After the flood gone, I decided to stop study with them because I realized that classical music is not a goal for me. My ultimate goals are 1. Play music (Thai music) for my wife so that we can have good time together and 2. Be example to my son so that I could convince him to love music and to learn music one day.

I decided to go for pop music route and found a gentleman on YouTube playing jazz piano on Alice in Wonderland. That was when it hits me "I want to play jazz piano" That was when all the problems begin. Since then I’ve change teacher four times.

First teacher assigned me to practice with Hanon (because of my basic was not good). My elbows and wrist got injured by this because I practiced so hard (2 or 3 hours a day with only Hanon). Then I switch to another teacher. This teacher mostly taught me how to set up my posture at the piano so that I’m not injuring myself again. I am pretty happy with this teacher but musically, it a very slow in progress. I would spent an entire hour with him a listen to him lectured me on how to relax my shoulders, arms, and wrists and other things like life philosophy. It had been like this for four months. I had never played piano in front of him. Assignments were practiced on my own and submitted via YouTube or Sound Cloud. To his credit, he is an incredible piano player. He plays songs beautifully and makes you want to be able to play like him. Also, all the injures are gone.

Until three weeks ago, I’m (once again) realized that it is almost a year passed, I’m still unable to play a song to impress my wife or son.
 
The reason I write this post is because I desperately don’t know where and how to go from here. It’s like I have to study with teacher forever. Without teacher I feel like I cannot make any good music. I can play all kinds of triads, know how to read notes, know both major and minor scales, music theory in an o.k. level. However, when sit in front of piano, all I can do is play note with chords as it shown on the lead sheet not thing more. I also have a lot of book. I feel like I must have them in order to become good pianist.

Now I own several highly recommended piano and jazz piano books but because I feel that I just have to “read it” so that I will know where and how to go from here. I diligently read all these books and practice everyday. My books are

1.   How to play piano despite years of lessons
2.   The complete book of scales, chords, and arpeggios
3.   Improvising Piano by John Mehegan
4.   John Valero’s book
5.   Oscar Peterson  Jazz pieces, minuets
6.   Jazz Hanon
7.   Amadie’s book on harmony (just ordered it from Amazon)
8.   Karl Humphries book (big one about how to learn piano through improvising)

My latest music school will shut down very soon. I don't know that I have to submit to private lesson again or stop lesson and become a self taught pianist. I am very confuse now. I "FEEL" that I need to stay with teacher otherwise my piano will not progress. But there is also this feeling deep inside telling me that I know enough and should be able to study by myself. I also thinking about buying an online jazz piano course and study it on my own.

I really love to stay on this path. I’ve have come too far and live is way too short to find another thing that I really like as playing piano. However, it seems very very difficult at this moment.

Any thoughts would be very welcome.

Thanks
GJ

[outin]

Hello and welcome to the forum.

Sounds to me that you have gone through much of the basics that are important in playing the piano (posture, correct technique) so you should very well be able to learn music by yourself too. But after a year you would definitely benefit a lot from having a teacher. I don't think these have to be mutually exclusive.

I have a teacher, but I still do much of my learning on my own. She's just good at spotting what I must do better and helping with some practical issues that I don't easily solve myself.

I have some pieces that I have studid completely on my own while also studying pieces with my teacher.

[grasoon]

Thank you very much for your kind reply. I do love (or at least I think) to have teacher but the problem is that in my country piano teacher mostly (and I don't know why) to have their student have class every week. I normally have 2 hours practice per day when 1 hour when I get home and again at 5 a.m. But it is still difficult for me to complete the homework on time 

[hfmadopter]

It's time to start practicing music, that's how you learn to play music. You have the basics, now you need to apply that. Stop buying books and learn at least one piece of real music starting today ! Pick a fairly easy song and go to work on it. After a full year of teachers you should be able to learn one short song, then another etc. You do that by learning to play one note at a time, until you know a measure of music, a line of music and finally the whole piece. It could take a day, a week or a month to learn your piece of music that you start today. How long it takes is of no concern as long as you progress.

Also, a year is not a lot of time in the world of learning piano. Some people don't realize that it's a life long venture, with plateaus to get through along the way. Scales and chords are structure in music but songs and pieces of real music learned are the reward ! I could never teach piano and not have my student learn a piece of music over a years time. When I had a teacher a long time ago she always included music. At first it was studies with a small piece of music and after a few years it became learning a big piece of music with studies to match. So in the beginning you learned say, the C scale and chords and also a piece of music in C. Later in the learning process a Sonata, with an Etude and maybe brush up on chromatic scales to go along with it, for instance. With her there was always music.

So go learn some music, at least one song, something simple to start off with !

[49410enrique]

...

I have a teacher, but I still do much of my learning on my own. She's just good at spotting what I must do better and helping with some practical issues that I don't easily solve myself.
...

this is probably not only the ideal but probably the norm once you move away from the most early fundamentals.  i just do not see how a lesson can be long or often enough for all the learning to happen in a lesson, heck that is why we practice, it is like attending lectures for another subject, you do your reading, make sure you understand enough to make sense of what is presented, then apply it outside of class. or rather a piano performance be it physical or interpretive concept would be presented and attempted/played and somewhat refined or changed in the lesson then you take that and practice it outside of the lesson to the particular piece but also make it part of your tool box to utilize as appropriate to other music.

[outin]

Thank you very much for your kind reply. I do love (or at least I think) to have teacher but the problem is that in my country piano teacher mostly (and I don't know why) to have their student have class every week. I normally have 2 hours practice per day when 1 hour when I get home and again at 5 a.m. But it is still difficult for me to complete the homework on time  

This is a problem for most of us adults. I sometimes have to work extra long hours and I am too tired to practice properly when I get home. So sometimes I go to my weekly lesson and I have not really progressed much. It is good to talk to your potential teacher, tell him that you practice as much as you can, but sometimes you may not be able to complete all the homework.

Sometimes when I have not progressed with my pieces much and there is time left on the lesson I just play some of my older pieces to my teacher and she makes comments on what could be better and more refined.

EDIT:
I hardly ever have 2 hours to practice during the week. So if you can practice this much I cannot see how it would not be enough to progress. You just need to practice efficiently. Avoid mindless repeating of exercises and spend more on actually learning new things and solving problems (this means you need to start learning pieces of music, not just repeating scales and technical exercises).

[lloyd_cdb]

Sorry for spam, but now it's stuck in my head...

t=2m16s

[grasoon]

Thank you very much to all of you. It is very clear that I real music is what I have to practice. Not the mindlessly practice scales and chord inversions.

For the past moth, I probably spent about 40-45 minutes of my practice time on scales and inversions because my teacher said that if I want to progress in pop and jazz field, these basics are very important. I don't have problem with the scales but the inversions HT just very difficult and I haven't started with the dim and aug yet!!! This is probably why I reluctant to play real music. Lackmof confident, maybe.

So, you guys think I should continue with teacher, right?

Enough whining, time to practice!!! and thank you very much for your time.

All the best to you!!!

[outin]

Thank you very much to all of you. It is very clear that I real music is what I have to practice. Not the mindlessly practice scales and chord inversions.

For the past moth, I probably spent about 40-45 minutes of my practice time on scales and inversions because my teacher said that if I want to progress in pop and jazz field, these basics are very important. I don't have problem with the scales but the inversions HT just very difficult and I haven't started with the dim and aug yet!!! This is probably why I reluctant to play real music. Lackmof confident, maybe.

So, you guys think I should continue with teacher, right?

Enough whining, time to practice!!! and thank you very much for your time.

All the best to you!!!

I spend far too little time on scales and sort of maybe 5 min. on one setting and not everyday. Only when I am up to it. Then I usually learn one pretty fast. I just don't see how it benefits me to repeat them for long, because it very soon becomes mindless. Practicing music is what I enjoy and can focus on, so that's what I do. I think something in between would be best.

I think it would be good to have a teacher, just make sure you start working on real music. You can be in charge of your own learning too, you are not a child anymore. Make sure you tell the teacher what you want.

[chopin2015]

I wish I was more involved with jazz, maybe I could help more if I was. You should have basic theory under your belt. Break it down to the absolute basics, if you are planning to play solo, you will have to accompany yourself and have a solid understanding of melody. Rhythm can get very complex. I heard some amazing rhythm work in a Liszt piece the other day. Do you have jazz standards that you enjoy? There are many charted out, and the chart detail varies! There are also notated jazz pieces. Learn basic chord structure, intervals, ratios, scales, scale structure, key signatures, there are multiple books that cover these concepts with additional detail, especially chords and voicing(but that takes lots acquired expertise). Also, I just attached a pdf, some other stuff that will help you with any piece is learning form. Most importantly: Train your ear! Do rhythm and pitch training, chords, identify tensions and suspensions and inversions and substitutions(I really recommend doing this by ear) and get as detailed as possible. If you know what a triad and a 7th is, you will figure out what a 10th is.
 Sorry, the pdf is a little too much, but I am positive that you can do most of this through concentrated training(play just right hand lead over a track, or just left hand...this you should really look up what to do, infact, it is a good place to start.) Lots of listening to jazz, lots of thinking about it and applying it. There are many flavors of jazz. Please ask any questions that you may have, I know I got off topic a little.

-J

 

[hfmadopter]

Thank you very much to all of you. It is very clear that I real music is what I have to practice. Not the mindlessly practice scales and chord inversions.

For the past moth, I probably spent about 40-45 minutes of my practice time on scales and inversions because my teacher said that if I want to progress in pop and jazz field, these basics are very important. I don't have problem with the scales but the inversions HT just very difficult and I haven't started with the dim and aug yet!!! This is probably why I reluctant to play real music. Lack Of confident, maybe.

So, you guys think I should continue with teacher, right?

Enough whining, time to practice!!! and thank you very much for your time.

All the best to you!!!

Absolutely continue with the teacher , yes. You just need to try some real music and make some sounds come from your piano besides chords and scales.

 However, your teacher is correct, in pop and jazz you need the chords and scale work, the more you know about those inversions you are having trouble with the better you will be able to improvise later on. In other words, you will be applying this work to your music later on. I wish I had paid more attention than I did to chordal progression and second inversions. I do ok in my arranging and improvising of pop ( not a fan of jazz ) but it could be better yet and or easier yet than it is.

I've always said to myself and to others as well, don't be lazy. Go to work double hard on the weak spots. For you right now that sounds like it's those inversions. So spend less time on what you know and do well and dive head first into the inversions since that is what is troubling you. Often the weakest things going into a piece ( the weakest technique, the weakest spots in a piece of music ) become the best parts that you play if you work like I just said. Take the weak spots and make them strong.

I am working on a pop piece right now ( actually about six of them) and it had a couple of very weak spots going in where I made mistakes continuously, so I've spent the last few days memorizing those spots. Now I blow right through those spots, I'm not reading the score to play those parts. I just started a new piece yesterday, right away I see it needs bass work, I don't like how the bass is written at all, I'm creating my own bass for the piece loosely based off of what's written there. How could I create my own bass if I don't know the chords, the cadence of the chords and the scale of that chord and how that relates to the melody and key signature? I guess in MIDI you could do it but you still have to play it for it to make a record of your music in a program but it's nice to know what to do to begin with. Right now that is what you are learning, you just have nothing to apply the work to yet so it seems meanigless to you at this level or this point in time. In playing music we are working with this stuff all the time and don't even know it !  In jazz in particular you need some knowledge or it's better to have it at least , IMO.

Practice smart, practice often more than long is my motto. I like 30 minute sessions of practice and rest, then come back do another 30 min. I could spend the entire Sunday afternoon in this way. Or a couple hours in the evening this way. I've built whole recitals this way in the past. The music is always in my head though, so in a way I'm working on it away from the piano, I have to apply it at the piano, I know how I want it to sound. But certainly in jazz and mostly true for pop as well, you have to make a lot of this stuff for yourself to get that sound. If those kinds of music are your interest, then know your chords and scales and progression.
David

[grasoon]

Once again, thank you very much for all of you!!!

It looks I've made a good decision to post my problem here. Many many thanks. I went to lesson yesterday. I told my teacher about all of my problems and she said that once I finish classes with this music school (I cannot skip class with music school otherwise I will loose my hour), I can have a private lesson with her at my place. She also gave me new homework "The Entertainer" to practice during the week. She also advice me to practice chord inversions in arpeggio.

Thank you very much again for all of your kind comments.

Best regards,
GJ

[hfmadopter]

Once again, thank you very much for all of you!!!

It looks I've made a good decision to post my problem here. Many many thanks. I went to lesson yesterday. I told my teacher about all of my problems and she said that once I finish classes with this music school (I cannot skip class with music school otherwise I will loose my hour), I can have a private lesson with her at my place. She also gave me new homework "The Entertainer" to practice during the week. She also advice me to practice chord inversions in arpeggio.

Thank you very much again for all of your kind comments.

Best regards,
GJ

Great advice from your teacher about the arpeggiated chords. you will be using them a lot in pop and jazz, in music in general actually.

The Entertainer is a great startng point and a piece of music you can actually use to play for others if you wanted to try that.

[grasoon]

Dear all,
It's me again, it has been 10 days after my last post. My problem remains the same since I still have about a month left in my class schedule with music school. But I'm feeling much better because now I know where to go next. I'm still practicing The Entertainer, which progress at o.k. rate. Anyway, I realize that I have to organize my practice session so that I have goal or topic in my practice. Therefore, I have create weekly practice schedule based on what I “feel” that my teacher wants me to achieve.
In a.m. section, I am planning to practice all the technical stuffs since I only have about one hour before I go to work, so no time for fun. In p.m. session, I am planning to focus on how play music by studying on how to build chords, theory stuffs, and play along with backing tracks to improve my skill because my goal is to play song from lead sheet or real book. Then, time for homework. I can have about one to one and a half hour before my little boss (my son) drag me to bedroom. Schedule’s detail is in picture below. It would be very very helpful if anyone here can help me comment on the schedule. I am going to show this to my teacher on my next class as well.

Thank you very much in advance for your kind help.
Grasoon