Why don't DPs emulate una corda?

[j_menz]

I mean, it can't be that hard surely. Hell, they could even overcome the limitations of modern grand pianos and allow one to do 1/2/3 strings.

[faulty_damper]

Some of them do.

[j_menz]

Some of them do.

Really?? Which ones?  Is it only the ones in the "grand" boxes?

[hfmadopter]

Really?? Which ones?  Is it only the ones in the "grand" boxes?

I think you will find many digital stage piano that can take a three pedal set. Many ship with a sustain pedal but have the option to buy the three pedal set in place of the single sustain. I don't recall the models off hand but I've run into several.

Many console style digitals come with the three pedal set built in. In fact I believe that Arius I played had three pedals.

You just have to do a bit of research.
David

[j_menz]

I think you will find many digital stage piano that can take a three pedal set. Many ship with a sustain pedal but have the option to buy the three pedal set in place of the single sustain. I don't recall the models off hand but I've run into several.

Many console style digitals come with the three pedal set built in. In fact I believe that Arius I played had three pedals.

You just have to do a bit of research.
David

I know they have three pedal sets, but they appear to only have a "soft" pedal. The better ones appear to have this with "continual detection" so you can gradate how soft it makes it. This isn't what I meant, though. The una corda pedal on a grand moved the mechanism so the hammers hit fewer strings. This not only changes the volume but it changes the tonal quality of the note and its decay pattern.  It is that effect I'm looking for.  As far as I can find, none of them do this.

[hfmadopter]

I know they have three pedal sets, but they appear to only have a "soft" pedal. The better ones appear to have this with "continual detection" so you can gradate how soft it makes it. This isn't what I meant, though. The una corda pedal on a grand moved the mechanism so the hammers hit fewer strings. This not only changes the volume but it changes the tonal quality of the note and its decay pattern.  It is that effect I'm looking for.  As far as I can find, none of them do this.

Kawai's big claim is that their sound samples are taken from their 9 ft grand in a crazy sound room loaded with sensors. You would think the samples of soft pedal would be taken from that using the una coda pedal. But I'm not sure of this of course.

[j_menz]

Kawai's big claim is that their sound samples are taken from their 9 ft grand in a crazy sound room loaded with sensors. You would think the samples of soft pedal would be taken from that using the una coda pedal. But I'm not sure of this of course.

Kawai was one of the ones I was thinking of. I agree that one would expect them to do this, but as far as I can read into their claims, they don't. It's just a volume pedal. 

[ajspiano]

Kawai was one of the ones I was thinking of. I agree that one would expect them to do this, but as far as I can read into their claims, they don't. It's just a volume pedal. 

I run my DP using pianoteq (which some people seem to think is rubbish, but I strongly disagree) - it certainly emulates ALL elements of the piano. I refuse to use my DP's on board sound now because there is no sympathetic resonance.

Pianoteq modals it accurately (atleast close to). Depress a key (no pedal) soft enough that it doesnt sound, depress another key and you will hear the resonance in the strings of the first one.

EDIT:
I'm no expert, but I fail to see how a sampled piano can beat this..  every key would have to be sampled at different velocities and with every possible combination of every other key. No current PC could handle it, or store the amount of samples required.

They have a note in the features saying that they modal the tonal difference when the una corda pedal is depressed.

[j_menz]

I run my DP using pianoteq (which some people seem to think is rubbish, but I strongly disagree) - it certainly emulates ALL elements of the piano. I refuse to use my DP's on board sound now because there is no sympathetic resonance.

Pianoteq modals it accurately (atleast close to). Depress a key (no pedal) soft enough that it doesnt sound, depress another key and you will hear the resonance in the strings of the first one.

EDIT:
I'm no expert, but I fail to see how a sampled piano can beat this..  every key would have to be sampled at different velocities and with every possible combination of every other key. No current PC could handle it, or store the amount of samples required.

They have a note in the features saying that they modal the tonal difference when the una corda pedal is depressed.

The upper end DPs have each key sampled at different velocities. They use modelling for the damper and string resonance, so should be on par, at least, with pianoteq or other modelling software. But they don't seem to either model or sample una corda. And I don't understand why not!

[ajspiano]

The upper end DPs have each key sampled at different velocities. They use modelling for the damper and string resonance, so should be on par, at least, with pianoteq or other modelling software. But they don't seem to either model or sample una corda. And I don't understand why not!

My DP is probably a little too old to have caught on to modelling the resonance.

I've used the upper end sample libraries that do model it or have resonance samples combined with modelling, they are either rubbish or my PC can't handle them very well .. 

[pytheamateur]

What about Yamaha's Avantgrand?  They are supposed to be as close as you can get to a real grand piano.  I've never tried their left pedal though.

[hfmadopter]

My DP is probably a little too old to have caught on to modelling the resonance.

I've used the upper end sample libraries that do model it or have resonance samples combined with modelling, they are either rubbish or my PC can't handle them very well ..  

I havn't looked very far into any of these features for a DP ( uni corda or PC handling of sound). Which Piano are you using?

I noticed that the CP33 Yamaha for instance, which was a good stage piano a couple of years ago did not have the stock sound of even the P155 now ( C series being a notch above the P series in grade), though the CP33 played well, the keys I thought felt better than the keys of the P155, though not as good as the high end Rolands.. The pianos I tried on Sunday were hooked into speakers above them but not through any PC that I know of ( Guitar Center chain store setup with speakers in a panel above all the pianos.) . I know there is more sound to be had from all of these pianos ! Of course my PC would probably bog out in the process. I'm more looking to run notation software anyway, just curious how old vs newer technology would stack up in use with software as you indicate using, if you know ?

[hfmadopter]

My DP is probably a little too old to have caught on to modelling the resonance.

I've used the upper end sample libraries that do model it or have resonance samples combined with modelling, they are either rubbish or my PC can't handle them very well .. 

One other thing, reverb seems to be a biggy these days. How the manufacturers are using multi layering of reverb makes a big difference in sound on many DPs, especially if you use accompiment instrumentation or chorus. It's nothing like the old reverb of electric pianos for instance and it's used differently even in Grand Piano sound. Roland has a four layer system for this in the 700NX, where the 300NX has 3. Part of todays technology 9 and i may not be using the correct term when I call it layering, though that's about what it boils down to in the end).

I see no reason Uni Corda can't be built in.

[ajspiano]

I havn't looked very far into any of these features for a DP ( uni corda or PC handling of sound). Which Piano are you using?

Roland FantomX8. - its still a solid workhorse, but it is aged, and roland has since replaced it with the G8

The on board piano sound is a 4 velocity layer 88 keys sampled sound, with some kind of modelling to blend the layers I think. I don't like it though for the reasons I stated above re sustain pedal. I can't play it for any length of time without becoming frustrated.

It has room for 2 foot controls, so I could use pianoteqs unacorda function, however I only own 1 digital pedal.

[nystul]

The upper end DPs have each key sampled at different velocities. They use modelling for the damper and string resonance, so should be on par, at least, with pianoteq or other modelling software. But they don't seem to either model or sample una corda. And I don't understand why not!

A lot of the software sample libraries use the una corda samples.  The problem on a DP would be the memory required.  Surely you would want samples for each key, and a few velocity layers, or in other words all the samples that you already needed all over again.  Slowly these units are getting more memory, but we are only starting to get to the point where you can't hear looping or the same sample used for several keys etc.

But I would expect some kind of filtering for una corda beyond just lowering the volume.  Considering the progress that has slowly been made on damper pedal and resonance effects, they ought to have something for una corda.