Hands

[outin]

What I would give to have Valentina Lisitsa's hands...

 

Now those are pretty hands!

First, yours are probably bigger so you should be glad. And think again how freakish you would look with those white female hands stuck to your arms! 

[chopin2015]

A 5' 10" rebuilt Weinbach. I bought it new in 1971, wore out the action over thirty years and had it rebuilt in 2005 rather than buy a new one. Although no longer new, its sound has always had a warm, rich quality which I have not found in new pianos in the shops. Its touch is heavy but I prefer that for control. I am hopeful that it will now see me out.

That's wonderful! I prefer rebuilt pianos to the new ones as well! Ideally I would have my piano(it's a restored older piano) and a yamaha grand just because their action and weight is ideal and their sound is nothing particular.

[lloyd_cdb]

That is an interesting article with most of the results confirming intuition. I would guess that perhaps the generally larger span results for left hands are because most people tested were probably right-handed and their left hands were not constricted as much over years by habitual gripping.

10% of females and 12% of males were left handed in the study.  Although that's probably a poor representation of the actual left handed population.  As a lefty, and one who is almost completely incapable of doing anything righty, I end up having conversations about handedness fairly frequently.  Many people I speak to claim left handedness simply because they write lefty (or even because they've picked something up once with their left hand), but then go on to play all sports right handed/footed as well as many other physical activities. I do understand, though, that writing is a significant aspect of life, but I don't think it would be enough of your time spent gripping to transform your hand, so to speak. Maybe since the decline of abuse of left-handed people in catholic school, it's "cool" to be a lefty? (similar to being Irish in America? lol...). 

Didn't mean to go off on a tangent, but what I originally planned on stating is that... my left hand is bigger even given that I do everything left handed.  I don't believe it's caused by nurture over nature.  I'd argue the opposite, given that lobsters have distinct handedness.  Maybe I'm over thinking though.

[ted]

Yes, I could be inclined to generalise from my own case. I played a lot of tennis for over twenty-five years. During that time my right hand was considerably less flexible than my left, and after ceasing to play tennis the hands gradually became much the same in their movements. But the gripping in sports is much stronger and more prolonged than in writing and everyday activities. So on reflection I think you are probably right.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

First, yours are probably bigger so you should be glad. And think again how freakish you would look with those white female hands stuck to your arms! 

Well I can reach a 10th pretty comfortably and an 11th kinda half assed, so...




But despite the fact that I'm black, I would still want her hands!  Love knows no color boundaries!!!   

[outin]

Well I can reach a 10th pretty comfortably and an 11th kinda half assed, so...

I want your hands!   

[ajspiano]

I want your hands!   

Maybe we should start up a thread where members can arrange hand swaps.

I'd like to swap with... no I wouldn't like to swap, ever.

[outin]

Maybe we should start up a thread where members can arrange hand swaps.

Any neurosurgeons out there?

[outin]

But despite the fact that I'm black, I would still want her hands!  Love knows no color boundaries!!!   

BTW, When I said white I meant that hers are really almost white (with a pinky shade). And yours are not black, they are brown. Mine are somewhat yellowish beige if tanned but mostly I avoid sun so they are dirty greyish yellowish whatever.

I do not get this black/white thing (probably because I am not American). I mean few people are black or white most are something else...

[rachmaninoff_forever]

BTW, When I said white I meant that hers are really almost white (with a pinky shade). And yours are not black, they are brown. Mine are somewhat yellowish beige if tanned but mostly I avoid sun so they are dirty greyish yellowish whatever.

I do not get this black/white thing (probably because I am not American). I mean few people are black or white most are something else...

In America, if you're African American, your black.  If you're Caucasian, you're white.  If you're Hispanic, your Mexican.  If you're Asian, you're Chineese.  If you're middle eastern, you're either a muslim or Indian.  Additionally, you can only act black or white.  It's kinda ugly, the people who I hang out with say that I act white despite the fact that my skin color is obviously brown,

Don't ask me why, I don't make the rules.

[outin]

Don't ask me why, I don't make the rules.

I know why, it's about history...I just don't see why it has to stay like that forever.

Maybe if you all would stop reproducing the rules in your discourse, then gradually things would change?

[ajspiano]

hers are really almost white (with a pinky shade). And yours are not black, they are brown. Mine are somewhat yellowish beige

I have a students who's hands have rangeed from black to green to blue to yellow..

...he's not an alien though, it's because he's a commercial painter the hand soap I have isn't really heavy duty enough to remove it if/when he comes directly from work.

[outin]

I have a students who's hands have rangeed from black to green to blue to yellow..

...he's not an alien though, it's because he's a commercial painter the hand soap I have isn't really heavy duty enough to remove it if/when he comes directly from work.

 

It was a bit embarrassing once to go to the lesson with black ink all over my hands...had a little encounter with our copier and since my skin is very dry and doesn't like scrubbing, I didn't want to irritate them before the lesson.

[unholeee]

i raise you one ham.

[costicina]

Blue, green, violet....I don't care: I JUST WANT BIGGER HANDS!!!!!!

[Bob]

 

[Bob]

I'd suggest putting your Google search on "strict filter" if you're going to search for tiny hands.  *Bob goes to bleach out his eyes.*  I don't know what that was.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

I know why, it's about history...I just don't see why it has to stay like that forever.

Maybe if you all would stop reproducing the rules in your discourse, then gradually things would change?

Well when I'm talking to someone, I'll be like, 'you're black, and he's white'

I wouldn't say, 'Okay you're tan with a light shade of pink, and you're charcoal with a light shade of magenta'

Are you kidding me?  That's absurd. 


But when someone's like, 'hey stop acting white', that's stupid.

[outin]

Well when I'm talking to someone, I'll be like, 'you're black, and he's white'

I wouldn't say, 'Okay you're tan with a light shade of pink, and you're charcoal with a light shade of magenta'

Why not?

Maybe you should take a sociology course (or even better gender studies). You might start understanding how the way you talk actually affects your attitudes. Why do you need to address someone's colour in everyday talk? Why is it relevant? Answer: Because it's a way to make the differences important where they actually don't have to be.

One day you'll all see the light

[rachmaninoff_forever]

Why not?

Why do you need to address someone's colour in everyday talk?

That's because it takes too long.

You don't say someone is playing Sergei Rachminoff's third piano concerto Op. 30 in D minor, you just say that he's playing the Rach 3.


Why do I need to address someone's colour in everyday talk?  I don't!  You don't walk up to someone and say, 'whats up white guy'.  It doesn't work that way.  But ANYWAYS! If we are talking adressing someone's color, it's probably for identity purposes.

Me:  hey don't you have Joe Smith in your English class?

Him:  hmmm, that sounds familiar...  He's that extra black guy right?

Me:  yeah

Him:  Oooooh I know who you're talking about! 


Catch my drift?

[rachmaninoff_forever]

Answer: Because it's a way to make the differences important where they actually don't have to be.

Well it's the most distinguishable difference.  There's no ulterior motive when you're talking about someone's skin colour.  Unless of course you actually do have one.

[outin]

Well it's the most distinguishable difference.  There's no ulterior motive when you're talking about someone's skin colour.  Unless of course you actually do have one.

Just take those classes and I am sure you'll get it. It's much easier that Bach

EDIT: I'll help you because you are my pal 

Can't help you with Bach though

WARNING: Following is a huge oversimplification of a complex interdisciplinary theory

Basically to become colour/gender/whatever blind you first need to learn to talk colour/gender/whatever neutral. Language is not only a means to express our inner feelings, attitudes and ideas. Language also forms and changes who we are and how we think. It does this from the time we start to communicate and learn to think "in words". These changes are very profound and difficult to reform, and also very strongly inherited (socially, not genetically).
 
So just like you need to reform your neural system to become a good piano player by just playing the keys over and over again, to reform your thinking system you need to use different kind of language over and over again.

[costicina]

"The limits of my world are the limits of my language" (Wittgenstein). Good point, Outin!

[49410enrique]

i  would not complain if my hands/grips got stronger, right now they are a limiting factor in some of my strength movements, i.e if i am deadlifing more than 300-325 lbs depending on my hand position (pronated vs suppinated vs alternatate vs neutral grips), it will give out before the muscles involved in the hip extension do. same with my one armed pull ups, i think i can do more but damn it if i 'slip off the bar' before i'm good and ready!

*stomps off to go brainstorm supplemental grip training....

[outin]

i  would not complain if my hands/grips got stronger, right now they are a limiting factor in some of my strength movements, i.e if i am deadlifing more than 300-325 lbs depending on my hand position (pronated vs suppinated vs alternatate vs neutral grips), it will give out before the muscles involved in the hip extension do.

I'm a bit confused now...how heavy are the keys on your piano??!

 

[lloyd_cdb]

Basically to become colour/gender/whatever blind you first need to learn to talk colour/gender/whatever neutral.

As you stated earlier, it focuses on differences.  The point of the descriptor is not to highlight a negative, but to reduce the number of choices by using the most limiting descriptor (unless of course, it clearly is for negative reasons).  

Let's say there is a room full of 50 males, 49 of whom are "white" with 1 being "black".   They are all tightly grouped in a crowd.  2 of them have a conversation, the black guy and 1 random white guy.  The random white guy comes up to you later:

WHITE GUY: I just had an interesting conversation with one of the guys in this room.

YOU: Oh, what did you talk about?

WG: Sociology.

YOU: Oh, who is the guy interested in Sociology?

Now, here's where it get's tricky.  He has many ways to respond to this question, here are a few:

1) WG: That guy in the room over there with the nose on his face and hair on his head.

2) WG: He's the one that's 20 in from the left and 10 back from the front.

3) WG: The black guy.

Which one answers your question both accurately and quickly?  He doesn't mean any offense by pointing out the guy is black, he just uses it as a descriptor to limit the possible choices that could be running through your head.  If the room was 25/25, clearly using "black" would be a poor descriptor.  Or it could be used in combination with other descriptors to again limit your choices: The short, fat, bald, black guy.  If that describes only 1 person in the room, how is it that it's a sociological "no-no".

One other example: A room full of 20 pianos, 1 is a bosendorfer and happens to be black, the rest are a random assortment of companies all of which are cherry colored.  Same conversation happens:

Q: "Which one is the bosendorfer?"
A:"The black one".  

How does using the descriptor "black" differ from an object to a person if it's purely for the sake of a clearly defining descriptor?

[outin]

How does using the descriptor "black" differ from an object to a person if it's purely for the sake of a clearly defining descriptor?

I'm afraid to answer your question more thoroughly than what I already wrote above would require me to:
- Sitate large amounts of scientific literature
- Write down an average lenght essay on the subject
- List sources for you to read
I'm afraid I cannot do it, even typing short messages on this stupid toy keyboard makes my arms hurt.
And since this is a piano forum after all, it's not the best place to start working on social issues  

EDIT:
But let me ask a little question: If there were 10 thin guys and one really fat guy in the room, wouldn't it be EASIEST to say "that fat one"? Would you do that?

[rachmaninoff_forever]

But let me ask a little question: If there were 10 thin guys and one really fat guy in the room, wouldn't it be EASIEST to say "that fat one"? Would you do that?

Well that's different.  You're implying that skin color is somehow a negative attribution.  People are offended by being referred to as fat, but not offended by being referred to by their skin color.   And if you are offended by being referred to by your skin color, then there's something wrong with you.  



HOWEVER, I do get your point.  Consider this:

Dude I just got jumped!

Vs.

Dude a bunch of black guys jumped me!

Depending on who you would say that to, that could potentially cause some conflict.  However, that's not every day conversation, and if I did infact get jumped, then I would choose to say the first one.  Of course if someone asked me what did those people look like, I would identify them by their skin colors because those are the most noticeable implements about them.

If necessary, I'll address people by their skin tone, and I'm not putting any group down.  

[lloyd_cdb]

EDIT:
But let me ask a little question: If there were 10 thin guys and one really fat guy in the room, wouldn't it be EASIEST to say "that fat one"? Would you do that?

I actually almost used that as a second example.  Yes, as it's the easiest descriptor.  If the easiest descriptor were "short, fat, bald, black man" I would use that as well.  It's situationally dependent.  It's like the game "who am I".  You ask a question to whittle down the total population to a manageable sample, and then successively do the same until you have a description that describes only one member of the population.  It's not about word association, it's about accurate descriptions.  It also is completely different referring to someone for description purposes compared to saying "hey fat man, get over here". 

I'm a WASP (White Anglo-Saxon Protestant).  I don't own a pair of jeans, I only own chinos.  I wear boat shoes, wear button-downs, and part my hair.  If I was in the opposite position as the black man I described previously, I wouldn't be offended being referred to as "the white guy".  I would, however, be offended if I was referred to as "the WASPy douche wearing the boat shoes".  Both are accurate descriptions, but one is intended for insult and one is simply the KISS descriptor (Keep It Simple, Stupid).   Don't get me wrong, I understand there are sociological implications of word choice, as rach-4eva pointed out in his last post.  But you can't apply that word choice theory to an accurate and non-offensive description, or you might end up with all the black bosendorfers feeling inferior.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

 I don't own a pair of jeans, I only own chinos.  I wear boat shoes, wear button-downs

Now all you need is a wooden bowtie...

No but yeah, that's what I wear!  Except I do wear the occasional slim/skinny jeans. 

[outin]

To both of you:

I think you do make perfect sense if you live in a society where having different skin colours/gender/whatever does not have any effect on how you are treated/perceived by others and how you perceive yourself. Just like I am sure all Bosies are created equal no matter what their colour (which might not be so, but that's another story).

It is just good to ask yourself every now and then whether things are not at straightforward as they seem on the surface. Also it's good to remember that even if you do not yourself use a word to offend, what you say may end up having unexpected consequences (like Rachs example above) and can still offend. The fact is I am not personally bothered about being female, but I still do have to work harder to be taken seriously in some occasions compared to if I was male.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

My mom recorded me on her phone today.

My hands look sooooo freaking ugly!!!

They look like spiders with extra long legs moving all awkwardly.  Yeah, that's a good way to describe them.  My hands look really awkward.

[werq34ac]

I guess my hands would be considered pretty I suppose if you disregarded the peeling skin around my fingernails. They're not all veiny and blotched like some hands are.

[perprocrastinate]

I need to buy new hands. These don't work.

https://postimage.org/image/nli7hyt07/

[chopin2015]

I need to buy new hands. These don't work.

https://postimage.org/image/nli7hyt07/

those are beautiful! 

[vsrinivasa]

those are beautiful! 

They are. I wish I had your hands... oh, wait, I'm Indian, so they'd look all weird. I have small hands but long fingers. I'd upload a photo, but how would I photograph my hands?

[rachmaninoff_forever]

They are. I wish I had your hands... oh, wait, I'm Indian, so they'd look all weird. I have small hands but long fingers. I'd upload a photo, but how would I photograph my hands?

By taking a picture?

[vsrinivasa]

By taking a picture?

Yeah, but every photo of my hands turns out weird. How do you set up a camera for that?

[outin]

Yeah, but every photo of my hands turns out weird. How do you set up a camera for that?

Hold it with the other hand?

[vsrinivasa]

Hold it with the other hand?

Tried that and broke my camera.

[outin]

Tried that and broke my camera.

Oh, sorry 

[vsrinivasa]

Oh, sorry 

It's fine, probably my hand's fault. I have weak palms and strong fingers, so I usually grip things with my fingertips. I was gripping the camera with my left fingertips and I dropped it and it broke. Thankfully, it was a cheap camera. I have another cheap one and a couple fancy ones.

[vsrinivasa]

Well when I'm talking to someone, I'll be like, 'you're black, and he's white'

I wouldn't say, 'Okay you're tan with a light shade of pink, and you're charcoal with a light shade of magenta'

Are you kidding me?  That's absurd. 


But when someone's like, 'hey stop acting white', that's stupid.

I actually do describe people like "medium brown with a hint of red and yellow" (my skin colour) or "pale tan with a little bit of yellow and brown" (my friend's skin colour). Maybe it's just being pedantic. Calling someone "black" is somewhat inaccurate; dark brown is better.

[unholeee]

https://s14.postimage.org/qxie49qf5/lolwhat.jpg

[perprocrastinate]

https://s14.postimage.org/qxie49qf5/lolwhat.jpg

I took the picture using the iMac's Photo Booth. Supposedly, it inverts images.

[j_menz]

I took the picture using the iMac's Photo Booth. Supposedly, it inverts images.

Should have fixed that when you photoshopped it. 

[vsrinivasa]

Should have fixed that when you photoshopped it. 

When did perprocrastinate photosh... Oh. Right.

[chopin2015]

https://s14.postimage.org/qxie49qf5/lolwhat.jpg

Beautiful!

[perprocrastinate]

Should have fixed that when you photoshopped it. 

The feeling of being falsely accused.. Now I understand.

[vsrinivasa]

In America, if you're African American, your black.  If you're Caucasian, you're white.  If you're Hispanic, your Mexican.  If you're Asian, you're Chineese.  If you're middle eastern, you're either a muslim or Indian.  Additionally, you can only act black or white.  It's kinda ugly, the people who I hang out with say that I act white despite the fact that my skin color is obviously brown,

Don't ask me why, I don't make the rules.

What happens if you're Indian then? I mean actually Indian, not Middle Eastern. I've been called (variously) Mexican, Pakistani, Middle Eastern, Arab, and African. I have even been associated with terrorists before. I don't know how Americans come up with these things.