Introduction to the Szymanowski Project

[furtwaengler]

I have decided to pursue Karol Szymanowski's 2nd Piano Sonata with vigor. It's been a hobby, seeing bits of work on and off since the summer of 2009, if I'm thinking correctly. I have made this firm after a wild experiment yesterday testing out the first movement on a rather sparse audience at a nursing home/health center, not sure if either the audience, the piano, or the pianist could live up to such a daunting task - thus an experiment it was, along with appropriate disclaimers, that they may stop me if they don't like it (Side point. It's in the air that people like this only want to hear mainstream, popular, singable melodies, and I try to make such the larger part of the programs...but are they not people to? Do people not like discovering new and powerful things...gifts of particular importance to the artist? I have not yet received any opposition to pushing the limits). Back to the Szymanowski...could I play it live? Be comfortable in my domain, not freak out at the view of the ground? Well, quite the test indeed...and quite the surprise indeed. Yes, what I call "the spider sections" which occur four times fell to a lack of faith...trust is half the battle. The physical possibility is there, but the breath must not be held or the eyes closed lest, behold! A great fall!

Well, all things considered, warts and all, I am quite bowled over by the results of this "test."  I feel like a war hero, like I can leap tall buildings in a single bound. Szymanowki's 2nd is in my future. This thread may keep record of some of the progress and work...I like the idea anyway.   

Ah well, I like this interaction at the end: "It's not every day you hear Szymanowski." - "That's the truth."

What do you think?

[emill]

hello Dave,

I can imagine your anticipatory emotions since you were playing this in a nursing home .... a big leap and gamble for more ... that's enough!     Yes you are correct that many of the general audience, not only in nursing homes prefer to hear mainstream classical music or the top hits in that genre.

That brings me to an experience yesterday which also had me anticipating how a crowd used to mainstream classics would react to Stravinsky's Petroucha as played by the Manila Symphony Orchestra.  I was surprised at the enthusiastic spontaneity of the crowd; perhaps it was the more than usual sprightliness that the American guest conductor took the orchestra which made the difference.  However, milling around the lobby after the concert, I heard some unfortunate comments like ... wow, that symphony gave me a headache! it had no tune throughout!!!! 

Correct me if I am wrong, but it would seem that the piece you played had an atonal quality, similar to the Petroucha. I still do enjoy much listening to pieces like this as my mind floats with the tempo, the  changing rhythms, the sudden change in notes, the exchange between the different sections of the orchestra ... also as clearly depicted in the piece you played. 

I would though, if playing in nursing homes for the elderly to stick to mainstream classics or to do "atonal" pieces with spirited and energetic themes, which you did and you can be sure majority will be pleased ....  THANKS for posting this Szymanowski ... another info learned today!!!

 

[furtwaengler]

hello Dave,

I can imagine your anticipatory emotions since you were playing this in a nursing home .... a big leap and gamble for more ... that's enough!     Yes you are correct that many of the general audience, not only in nursing homes prefer to hear mainstream classical music or the top hits in that genre.

I had a brief conversation with a famous Russian pianist the other day and brought up Nikolai Medtner, who she seemed to like, but the length and notoriety of his music has been a barrier to her willingness to perform it. It is with this in mind that I am more willing to pursue a road less traveled with less known music that interests me. (Also it is a bit ironic that the students I accompany typically come in so uneducated about classical music that Beethoven's Waldstein would be just as new and strange to their ears as Mosolov or Stanchinsky!) I do of course try to keep programs for nursing homes accessible and hummable...while asking permission to branch out.

That brings me to an experience yesterday which also had me anticipating how a crowd used to mainstream classics would react to Stravinsky's Petroucha as played by the Manila Symphony Orchestra.  I was surprised at the enthusiastic spontaneity of the crowd; perhaps it was the more than usual sprightliness that the American guest conductor took the orchestra which made the difference.  However, milling around the lobby after the concert, I heard some unfortunate comments like ... wow, that symphony gave me a headache! it had no tune throughout!!!! 

That is very interesting! Petrouchka has been in the mainstream for quite a number of years. I even have a few broadcasts of Philadelphia Orchestra Gala concerts, or donor appreciation nights in which Leopold Stokowski included Petrouchka. (By George, you've given me a good reason to listen to these broadcasts!).

Correct me if I am wrong, but it would seem that the piece you played had an atonal quality, similar to the Petroucha. I still do enjoy much listening to pieces like this as my mind floats with the tempo, the  changing rhythms, the sudden change in notes, the exchange between the different sections of the orchestra ... also as clearly depicted in the piece you played. 

I would though, if playing in nursing homes for the elderly to stick to mainstream classics or to do "atonal" pieces with spirited and energetic themes, which you did and you can be sure majority will be pleased ....  THANKS for posting this Szymanowski ... another info learned today!!!

I will certainly correct you, while marking down that I love having your feedback precisely because of your certain relationship to music. As I have said before, I have learned more about music performances from an English teach who is not himself a musician, than from any music teacher or musician. Now, check this simply link on atonality: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atonality

Neither Stravinsky's Petrouchka nor Szymanowski's 2nd Piano Sonata are atonal. Both have firmly established tonal centers, although there is some playing around with polytonality in the Stravinsky (such as C major and F# major at the same time), and chromaticism in the Szymanowki. Both pieces are very busy and complex, with a lot of action going on at one time...so from this standpoint it can also be a lot of work for the unfamiliar listener. As the listener gets more experienced with the sounds, however, the pieces become much easier to appreciate. Notice even in this first movement of the Szymanowski, there are periods of rest. the Second theme is of an other worldly beauty, first appearing in D-flat major, and then coming back around in the recap in the home key of A major. This sonata has two movements, and the second is nearly twice the size of the first and has much variety in its variations and development, and even ends with a fugue. After reading your thoughts, I decided to record this portion of the second movement as a means of getting you better acquainted with Szymanowski's sound, thinking this small part would be easier to grasp as it's a singable melody rooted in the key of F# minor. Plus it was not recorded on that nursing home piano, but on the auditorium Yamaha C7 (which, haha, seem it could be tuned as well.)

Thanks for your comments, Emill, and let me know what you think! 

[rachfan]

Hi Dave,

Bravo!

I listened to your Szymanowksi 2nd Sonata last night.  I must say I was very impressed!  You did a fabulous job with so difficult a piece.  You were very expressive in your playing throughout. 

Thanks for sharing your recording with us.

David

 

[emill]

dear Dave,

Thanks so much for the clarification .... I have always found many of the posts and topics to be personally very educational especially from my point of view, someone who has not been through formal music education. It is perhaps the usage of the word "atonal" among us here and not the "atonal" musicians refer to that has confused me.  So that pieces like Liebestraume #3 and Chopin's Etude in E Major have that singable quality with a definite tune .... and a good number of Stravinsky's pieces seem to be "very busy and complex, with a lot of action going on at one time" with no discernable tune or singable tune for the unfamiliar therefore the mislabeling from a non-musicians viewpoint as "atonal". As I often say to myself after going through some topics here in PS .... " another lesson learned for the day".

YES Dave .... the part you recorded is beautiful, touching and singable!!!  It reinforces very well your explanation.  Much appreciated!!  and the recording too is GOOD.

[furtwaengler]

dear Dave,

Thanks so much for the clarification .... I have always found many of the posts and topics to be personally very educational especially from my point of view, someone who has not been through formal music education. It is perhaps the usage of the word "atonal" among us here and not the "atonal" musicians refer to that has confused me.  So that pieces like Liebestraume #3 and Chopin's Etude in E Major have that singable quality with a definite tune .... and a good number of Stravinsky's pieces seem to be "very busy and complex, with a lot of action going on at one time" with no discernable tune or singable tune for the unfamiliar therefore the mislabeling from a non-musicians viewpoint as "atonal". As I often say to myself after going through some topics here in PS .... " another lesson learned for the day".

YES Dave .... the part you recorded is beautiful, touching and singable!!!  It reinforces very well your explanation.  Much appreciated!!  and the recording too is GOOD.

Ah, it is very good to read this. I love this part of the sonata!

Hi Dave,

Bravo!

I listened to your Szymanowksi 2nd Sonata last night.  I must say I was very impressed!  You did a fabulous job with so difficult a piece.  You were very expressive in your playing throughout. 

Thanks for sharing your recording with us.

David

Thanks for listening, David. Even with this, I am in this nervous spot regarding time in my schedule to do lasting work on music such as this. The past two or three days I have spent little bits and pieces of the free time in which I can also sit alone at the piano, slowly memorizing the fugue starting from the end, for in the case of this complex fugue, memorization is the best way to grasp the piece to learn it. The little bits are sticking and growing...but I could not play you the 1st movement now even as I recorded this performance last week...quite a lot to handle. I want to persevere. Yet I am also weary of setting a solid date in the spring to perform as a part of a full program.

[fnork]

Oh gosh, how could I have missed someone posting something like the Szymanowski 2nd sonata....?! You have my respect for daring trying to play this monumental piece. I only know a few who have pulled it off successfully in concerts. I don't have headphones on this computer but I'll try to listen to it later. REALLY remarkable piece, this, in my opinion!

[fnork]

hey, what happened with your Szymanowski project? You were obviously doing a very fine job, listening through the performances here once again. Then again, there's hardly a more terrifying piece to perform than this. Was fortunate to hear this very fine pianist performing this piece last fall:

He commented on the fugue being a greater challenge than the one in Hammerklavier, though luckily the Szymanowski is shorter in duration

[furtwaengler]

Not good to neglect my own threads. Thanks for the encouragement and the recording. My problem in learning big pieces like this is the need to put it on the shelf in favor of what I must do to bring in money, as I'm a paid accompanist and only occasionally get to present the solo hobbies. I was asked to share a recital with a tenor's junior recital (which are half recitals) back in February and at the time the Szymanowski 2nd was in my practice. I gave thought to shooting the moon, daring to program it in those 2 weeks notice deeming it a really bad idea and choosing the Medtner I uploaded and Liszt's Pensée des morts instead, thus stopping the Szymanowski project once again. Since than the flood gates have opened, and it may be May, maybe, before I get back on track. I still want to perform it though (even with these little hands).  

He commented on the fugue being a greater challenge than the one in Hammerklavier, though luckily the Szymanowski is shorter in duration

I have not worked on the Beethoven, but have read it through enough to know some of the challenges. Op. 101 seems even more knotty...but Szymanowski difficult, yes. The preliminary preparation in working on it is harder than the actual working on it, if that makes sense. My biggest difficulty is making the tenths musical exciting and effective knowing I cannot effectively stretch them. It is a big shame from this stand point that I could never do justice to the 3rd sonata, which on the whole is not as great a challenge as the 2nd because of that one bit of tenths in the right hand which is so much more effective than the ossia breaks...ah well.