A question for technicians: Improving an old Steinway "L" through voicing?

[jazzdad69]

I thought I'd throw this question out there because I'm in the market for a smallish grand, and I had an "interesting" experience last weekend regarding a late 1950's Steinway L piano.

I went to view the Steinway L at the owner's house.  I was met there by the owner as well as the local certified Steinway technician.  I had arranged for the technician to be present -- he was familiar with the piano (he had tuned it regularly for several years) and I wanted his opinion on its condition, etc.

The piano itself had been 'restored' (that nebulous term!) by the local Steinway dealer 12 years ago.  I was assured that top-notch parts were used.  The owner told me he spent $12,000 on the restoration in 1999, and I have no reason to doubt him.  The keyboard had Steinway action, not Renner.  Original soundboard.  Original ivory keys -- sadly they were quite worn and discolored, but I guess it's to be expected for the age of the piano (almost 60 years old).

When I played the piano, I noticed the following:

a. The bass response was muddled, indistinct.  Not a lot of warmth.  The harmonics of the lower strings didn't sound complimentary.  At my work (I teach piano at a studio), I play on a beat-up Yamaha C2 that has more warmth and power in the low end.

b. The "passaggio", or transition between different ranges on the piano was not very smooth.  The upper registers of the piano (the last 2 octaves) sounded harsh.

c. The action was OK, and the piano was definitely playable, but when I played various passages, the action lacked subtlety, as if the piano wasn't really able to respond as sensitively as I would have liked.  It was like the action was "tired", if that's any kind of definition.

After I played the piano for a while, I told the Steinway technician about my concerns.  He was almost casually dismissive about the whole thing.  "I can make the piano sound any way you want!", he said almost with a smirk.  "I'm the best technician in this part of the country.  You pay me $1200, and I'll spend a whole day with you, and I'll work on this piano -- and I guarantee that I'll make this piano sing."

Basically, he said through regulation and voicing, he could make the "L" perform much better than what I was hearing.

But honestly -- how much can he improve on things?  Can he improve the overall tone through basic voicing?  Do the strings need to be replaced to improve the warmth?

After I left that meeting, I was kind of disappointed -- I felt like I was the one being played, not the piano... 

If anyone has any input on this kind of situation, I'd be very happy and grateful.  Thanks!

[hfmadopter]

The tech may have been a bit smug about it but indeed it does sound as though the piano need regulation and voicing. After 12 years since the rebuild that would be in proper order of things.

The muddled bass, can be caused by a combination of the two items he mentioned , as well as it could be the bass strings could use a little releasing and a twist added to them. If the piano isn't singing the lower shoulders of the hammers probably need needling, if it were too bright, then up nearer the strike point needs the needling ( not the strike point just the upper shoulder near the strike point and less needling that the lower shoulder). The transition is probably sanding in the hammers for poper shape, as well as needling.

It starts with regulation to make sure the strike distance is correct and let off correct. If the strike distance is long it will cause a weak strike and uneven  sensativity. If the let off is early, that's similar in effect, if late the strings and hammer could block up and give a kind of thunking sound to the tone with no sustain.

This is all assuming the sound board is in good shape. I assume it is, not often a sound board goes dead unless there was water damage or intense heat near by ( wood stove on the same side of the room kind of heat drying and cracking the sound board and at that it usually can be shimmed and glued to restore the sound)..

Voicing is a multi task event, he certainly would be there a long time if it's way off and may have the action out of the piano several times . As the overall voicing improves things you then do some individual voicing. Strike distance is done in the piano, let off out of the piano with a rack attached to the action assmbly. Steinway action is a bear to regulate too. Voicing is done out of the piano and the action slid in , pull it out do a little more, slide it in etc...

It should be a totally different sounding piano in the end. Some section of the piano may stay some what similar as that section may not need a lot of treatment. It's very common for the bass to go dead and the treble very bright, like hurt your ears bright. When he is done there should be considerable sustain gain, better tone and more volume control.

I'm in a two week process of voicing my own piano right now. It's getting there. Mine was way too bright and brash sounding, the hammers were hard and needed sanding. I'm going to deep needle the bass hammer shoulders today. One thing about a grand , it's easy to pull out the action and put it back in again to play. I'm using Kawai's technical voicing  page as my guide. I've voiced before but not to this extent ( the entire range needs something and it's turning out well). Soon I can give it a final fall tuning !

Incidentally, I am not a professional tech, I'm one who has maintained my own piano for many years though.

[jazzdad69]

Thanks HFM, I really appreciate your perspective and input about this particular problem.

Your efforts to voice and regulate your own piano sound fascinating -- I have no experience whatsoever in doing that kind of work on my piano, but I'm curious to learn.

Based upon your comments, it sounds like that Steinway technician wasn't just bragging and exaggerating his own skills.  Perhaps some major improvements in the action and tone can be achieved with a full-day's work.  I don't think the Steinway L that I looked at needs an overhaul necessarily -- I just think (as you mentioned) that the restoration that was performed is now 12 years old, and now, the piano needs some work.

On Monday, I'm having a technician (totally different guy, not the Steinway guy) come and tune my Yamaha.  While he's here I"m going to ask for his opinion on the situation.

I'll report back with any wisdom he shares with me.

[hfmadopter]

What ever you decide I wish you luck with it. Maybe just get your Yamaha voiced or re hammered and voiced like a Steinway and save a bundle of money, lol !!! I'll be curious what your brain picking of the tech turns up !