What if Martha was ugly?

[ladychopin]

I got your attention? 
Why Martha Argerich considered as one of the best pianist alive and from the best who ever lived?
what is about her playing that is so special? Are you sure that this has nothing to do with her beauty when she was young?
What is different in her playing from other pianist?.
TY!

[proklover]

Hahahaha this is hilarious. I think you do have a point...many great pianists probably became famous PARTLY for their beauty (Glenn Gould, Paderewski, listisa, on and on). I mean, classical music performance is a type of show biz, after all isn't it?
I personally think Martha became famous because she won the international Chopin competition at a VERY young age, and because her technique was top notch (and still is), and because she pretty much played (and still plays) everything a tad over tempo (ahem).
Also I think the magnetism we find that draws us to certain performers also has to do with their personality...when have you found a famous pianist that wasn't quirky in some way? (I don't count listisa, because I don't like her.) Martha is particularly interesting because she always plays with a certain objectivity ... She always seems kind of aloof and distant but some of her recordings are simply amazing (especially Prokofiev, even though she plays like twice the intended tempo, but prokofiev is my favorite composer, so meh)
Okayyy, I wrote a lot mor than I thought I would! Hope my insight is helpful, or interesting at least!

[ladychopin]

how come you don't like lisitsa? (please write a lot, I'm curious)
That is my point, if I would have told you, today I met a pianist but he plays alot not in the right tempo, you wouldn't think that he is good, right?
so why do you (and I) still like her?
And what is usually the age, that pianists win/attend this competition

[rachmaninoff_forever]

how come you don't like lisitsa? (please write a lot, I'm curious)

You like Lisitsa too?!




But hey, for anyone who's reading this, Lisitsa is already taken, so go find someone else to admire!!!
 

[perprocrastinate]

You like Lisitsa too?!




But hey, for anyone who's reading this, Lisitsa is already taken, so go find someone else to admire!!!
 

I like Lisitsa, but hate the sound of the Bosendorfer piano.

Does she think she's too cool for Steinway?

[ladychopin]

YEAH! I love her!    
but.... I can tell why!
Why do YOU like her?

[j_menz]

But hey, for anyone who's reading this, Lisitsa is already taken, so go find someone else to admire!!!
 

Ahem!

[Bob]

Just to clarify... Is the thread title literal or a joke? 

I'm not up on all the performers.  I've heard the name of of course.  I was picturing Lili Krauss though instead so I thought this thread was a joke.  I'm still not really sure though.

[49410enrique]

But hey, for anyone who's reading this, Lisitsa is already taken, so go find someone else to admire!!!
 

easy enough

[Bob]

Yeah, that look inspires everyone to take her seriously.

*Once again Bob is glad he's a guy.*

[ladychopin]

That was absolutely not a joke 

[Bob]

I doubt she got that far based on her looks. There are uglier performers out there and she doesn't look that great.  If she did, looking *that* great would probably be a negative.  

Ok, M?  Haha.   Wait, wait. No, no.   Better yet...  mmm, kay?

[ladychopin]

I DO believe that her beauty helped her as a young pianist 
back to my question, what IS special in her playing?

[rachmaninoff_forever]

easy enough

Who is she?

[49410enrique]

Who is she?

that's loal a baby! (or lola astanova for the unititiated).
i absolutely love her rachmaninoff!

i mean she really has such an incredible amount of passion in her playing, my favorite is that build up in 2:01-2:10 (the whole thing is great but that little snippet is tastey. people love to hate on her for all sorts of reasons, i  could not care less. i'll have 2nd's of that thank you!)

[werq34ac]

I DO believe that her beauty helped her as a young pianist 
back to my question, what IS special in her playing?

Her Prokofiev 3 is unsurpassed. No one comes close. Not even Yuja Wang.

That said, you should listen to her Jeux D'eau. Best Jeux D'eau evar!!

[zezhyrule]

i mean she really has such an incredible amount of passion in her playing

Her technique is... interesting. And that face  is she mad at the piano or something?

[ladychopin]

Lol! she does seem pretty upset!   

[j_menz]

*** wonders if this thread has, or indeed ever had, a point. 

[49410enrique]

*** wonders if this thread has, or indeed ever had, a point. 

lol +1
disguised dog approves

[rachmaninoff_forever]

could care less

...
...
...
COULDN'T care less

[proklover]

Ok then...this thread has um, gone a bit astray since I first posted....

[j_menz]

...
...
...
COULDN'T care less

Something about people and glass houses comes to mind....

Your previous two posts:

threads where you can't view because of malware detected annoys me.

Threads annoy you, not annoys you.

Who are some pianists who you think picks out the best outfits

Pianists pick out outfits, they don't picks them out.

Pedantry is best left to the perfect.  

[rachmaninoff_forever]

Something about people and glass houses comes to mind....

Your previous two posts:

Threads annoy you, not annoys you.

Pianists pick out outfits, they don't picks them out.

Pedantry is best left to the perfect.  

Threads annoy you, not 'annoys' you.



But ANYWAYS, I write the same way I talk.  Unless of course I'm doing an ACT or college essay.

[49410enrique]

...
...
...
COULDN'T care less

Dun. Could not care less about how to spell dun either.

[j_menz]

Ok then...this thread has um, gone a bit astray since I first posted....

These do you like/ what's good or bad about/ what's the poop on X pianist threads always go astray.

Serves them right.

[j_menz]

Could not care less about how to spell dun either.

I could care less, but I can't be bothered putting in the effort required. 

[cadenza14224]

Speakin' of good looks, pretty sure Alice Sara Ott is famous for her looks over her playing (though I do like her Chopin...).

[Bob]

Haha... Interesting video. Looks like she's drugged. Drugged playing the piano and she's also in the audience?  Audience of one?  Falling asleep?   

Breaking the fourth wall too.

The camera is always on her face.  Makes you wonder about who directed or edited this.  I was waiting for it to pan away and we discover she's actually not playing at all.

And they don't finish the piece?  What the heck...?

Different video.  Almost seems like a spoof.

[costicina]

Marta, Valentina and Lola are beaufiful women and superb pianists...Aniway, among th three of them, I'd like to look like Lola, and to play with her fire

[outin]

I guess it is obvious that in any activity based on entertaining an audience, live or through media, good looks are a benefit... Maybe not a prerequisite, but definitely helpful in getting successful. Aren't we lucky they invented plastic surgery? 

[pytheamateur]

I like Lisitsa, but hate the sound of the Bosendorfer piano.

Does she think she's too cool for Steinway?

Lisitsa's endorsement of Bosendorfer is more of a marketing thing than a genuine preference over Steinway, in my opinion.  You'll see that her earlier recordings were made on Steinway pianos.  Perhaps it is after she got some measure of internet fame that Bosendorfer gave support to her and turned her into a "Bosendorfer artist".

[werq34ac]

Marta, Valentina and Lola are beaufiful women and superb pianists...Aniway, among th three of them, I'd like to look like Lola, and to play with her fire

If I were a woman, I would want to look like young Martha and play like her

[chopin2015]

If I were a woman, I would want to look like young Martha and play like her

Martha's Prokofiev is awful. Sorry. Actually I have not seen a woman with enough balls to play Prokofiev. Lola's hands are superior to Lisitsa's and Martha's, she's lengthy!...I bet she could do an 11th. My hands are no bigger than a 10th, unfortunately and I bet Lisitsa and Martha are in that average as well Anyways. Stupid amazon women, lol jk Im jealous as well.

[werq34ac]

Martha's Prokofiev is awful. Sorry. Actually I have not seen a woman with enough balls to play Prokofiev. Lola's hands are superior to Lisitsa's and Martha's, she's lengthy!...I bet she could do an 11th. My hands are no bigger than a 10th, unfortunately and I bet Lisitsa and Martha are in that average as well Anyways. Stupid amazon women, lol jk Im jealous as well.

Really you don't like her prok 3???

[sevencircles]

that's loal a baby! (or lola astanova for the unititiated).
i absolutely love her rachmaninoff!

i mean she really has such an incredible amount of passion in her playing, my favorite is that build up in 2:01-2:10 (the whole thing is great but that little snippet is tastey. people love to hate on her for all sorts of reasons, i  could not care less. i'll have 2nd's of that thank you!)

Wonder why she isn´t more famous? She is 27 years old and has been in the business for a while most likely.

She seems to have a lot more superstar potential then Lang Lang 

[werq34ac]

Wonder why she isn´t more famous? She is 27 years old and has been in the business for a while most likely.

She seems to have a lot more superstar potential then Lang Lang 

It doesn't take talent to become a super star. That said, I don't think Lang Lang is the untalented wreck everyone thinks he is. I mean Barenboim performs with him.

Also, I don't think Lola holds a candle compared to Argerich. She's a good pianist but Argerich is just in a league of her own. Argerich is one of the best pianists alive today. Astanova is a good pianist with a pretty face (from what I've heard).

Don't get me wrong, she's a good pianist, great in fact, but not as good as Argerich.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

Martha's Prokofiev is awful. Sorry. Actually I have not seen a woman with enough balls to play Prokofiev. Lola's hands are superior to Lisitsa's and Martha's, she's lengthy!...I bet she could do an 11th.

I can reach an 11th, does that mean that my hands are superior to Lisitsa's?

[j_menz]

I can reach an 11th, does that mean that my hands are superior to Lisitsa's?

No, just bigger. 

[sevencircles]

It doesn't take talent to become a super star. That said, I don't think Lang Lang is the untalented wreck everyone thinks he is. I mean Barenboim performs with him.

True but It would propably be a lot harder to sell Lang Lang as an artist then Astanova. She propably hasn´t had a good publicist yet.

[asuhayda]

Martha Argerich has an unparralled command over the instrument.  When she sits at a piano, it's almost as if the piano submits to her will!  This is not a quality that even Horowitz possessed.  His playing often looked labored to me.  Although, he was a genius as well (don't get me wrong).  But, Martha's playing just looks effortless.  She can make some truly sadistic music look extremely easy.

The fact that she was easy on the eyes in her earlier days was a plus.  But, I actually kind of dig her new "wandering woman from Silent Hill"  look (you need to play video games to get that reference).   

[werq34ac]

True but It would propably be a lot harder to sell Lang Lang as an artist then Astanova. She propably hasn´t had a good publicist yet.

Really? Music isn't so simple as "the more talented pianist will become successful."
It takes a lot more than talent to become a concert pianist. In fact, it takes personality. Talent won't sell on its own. In a field like piano, there are thousands of pianists who are very talented and aren't famous. Then what separates legends like Horowitz and Argerich from decent concert pianists like Astanova and decent concert pianists from very talented pianists? Personality. Horowitz's performance personality is absolutely electrifying. I mean look at his Islamey. I don't think I've ever heard it better played.

That said, Astanova does have personality, but I don't really think it stands out enough to make her a "superstar." Now Lang Lang. I don't feel like I can judge him based on the enormous amount of bias against him. I don't think I can make an objective judgement on whether he plays with personality. And I don't think Lang Lang is a super star. He might be well known, but people don't consider him among the greats.

[pianoman53]

I don't know if this sort of discussion was what op had in mind.
I think her thing us that she was such a virtuoso in her younger days. There are still not that many that can do what she did, even 40-ish years after she got famous. I haven't really heard any of her later recordings, but unless she would go pogorelich or helffgot, and simply lose it, I don't think its possible to just wipe of such a star, without a major discussion afterwards... That she probably could have her way with any conductor or director with those looks clearly won't hurt...

[werq34ac]

That she probably could have her way with any conductor or director with those looks clearly won't hurt...

Not anymore. She's a granny now  . But she still could have her way with any conductor or director.

[berggerbschoenneohcs]

You like Lisitsa too?!




But hey, for anyone who's reading this, Lisitsa is already taken, so go find someone else to admire!!!
 

Lisitsa is nothing but a filthy YouTube ***, a hot one though

[ladychopin]

How much can Valentina and Marth reach? 

[chopin2015]

Lisitsa is nothing but a filthy YouTube ***, a hot one though

Yeah but her Mozart-not bad. I liked her new videos, and that haircut was cute.

[nikolasideris]

Oh come on... Looks don't hurt... Unless one uses them instead of their real potential in any business (for example being a CEO in a business, NOT because you're capable but because you look amazing), etc...

This is where Martha excels: She's got (still does) the looks and the capability of doing ANYTHING on the piano. Horowitz was dead ugly but he also had the chops for the piano, and was in the USSR which helped a bit as well!

Personally I'd love for Lola or Valentina, or any hot pianist to play any of my works. Heck I'd love it if anyone would play any of my works in public, but anyhow...

[camille101]

Very interesting notion, ladychopin.  These days especially we tend to wonder if what we see corresponds to what we hear, and if a woman's appearance is helping her playing.  It's one of the points surrounding all the Yuja Wang publicity.  It's also interesting in that men don't receive the same attention and scrutiny.
I'd say that the classical music world today does suffer from some subtle sexism.  It's generally assumed that men have a greater dominance over the keyboard.
That being said, the 20th Century Martha developed in was quite different socially.  Dramatic motions and physical appearance seemed to have had much less importance.  Thus we have those female pianists without an attractive appearance - Myra Hess, Yvonne Lefubre etc. - who were valued solely on their sound.
With this in mind, I don't believe Martha's sound would have been received differently had she been 'ugly'.  Maybe now, but not then.

[ladychopin]

wow I forgot about the post, well, I read it again.....
Ok I got that the look probably didn't matter so yet, what is it about her playing that makes her one of the best pianists alive?
btw who is Lola?....