Pieces one needs to learn before the Etudes

[faa2010]

Hello,

I am interested in playing the Revolutionary Etude of Chopin. However, I think I lack the sufficient techinique in order to learn it.

Do you know which pieces can help me so I can start learning and playing it?

BTW, I am learning the Claire the Lune of Debussy, Intermezzo of Manuel M Ponce and I am thinking in playing a mazurka of Chopin.

Thanks for your advice.

[larapool]

Interesting you say that, because I'm currently refining Claire de Lune and just two weeks ago started the Revolutionary Etude, and I've never practiced an etude before.  Then again, I also started Beethoven's Pathetique sonata earlier this year, so... just take that however you wish.

[ajspiano]

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,3916.msg35679.html#msg35679

[danhuyle]

To learn Chopin Etude Op10 No12.

Scales
Arpeggios

It's basically patterns that repeat themselves and you just practice. Get a teacher and take lessons. They know what to do.

[ajspiano]

To learn Chopin Etude Op10 No12.
Scales
Arpeggios

While this provides a general foundation, its probably not how I'd go about teaching someone to convey the passionate rage found in the revolutionary etude.. nor would be enough of a foundation for a student to suddenly be able to communicate that music (within the context of the rev's technical challenges) without playing a few other pieces of music first.

[danhuyle]

If we're talking about the artistic side of it (you're not affected by technique), then that's something else entirely.

To convey passion in this Chopin etude, or any other etude, you have to stop thinking about the technical aspects and concentrate on the interpretation. To convey the sound, it requires independence of hands, you have to shape both hands to get that effect.

Interpretation is a whole new level and something that needs attention in its own right.

At least Chopin made this etude one of his easiest pieces to memorize. No surprise why it's played overplayed.

[j_menz]

If we're talking about the artistic side of it

If we're not, we shouldn't be talking about it at all!

[ajspiano]

If we're not, we shouldn't be talking about it at all!

How unfairly oppressive of you. - suggesting that we should learn to play all things musically, and that music should be the primary focus 

[scherzo123]

For me, the "Revolutionary" Etude Op.10 No.12 is hard. I'm still trying to get it up to tempo. My left hand is really bad with turning the thumb over...

While this provides a general foundation, its probably not how I'd go about teaching someone to convey the passionate rage found in the revolutionary etude..

Sorry if this is a dumb quesstion, but when you say "passionate rage", you don't mean banging, right?

nor would be enough of a foundation for a student to suddenly be able to communicate that music (within the context of the rev's technical challenges) without playing a few other pieces of music first.

This is helpful advice for me.

[ajspiano]

Sorry if this is a dumb quesstion, but when you say "passionate rage", you don't mean banging, right?

no..

more like whatever is required to evoke the following more detailed description of "passionate rage"..

conflict/war --> lost the war --> despair --> desire for revenge ---> calm before the storm.

"From  Vienna,  Chopin  moved  to  Paris.  Along  the  way,  he stopped  in  Stuttgart  where  he  learned  of  the  Russians'  capture  of Warsaw.  This  news  threw  him  into  a  rage  which  compelled  him  to write  the  "Revolutionary"  Etude  Op.  10,  No.  12 "
^source

[outin]

source

Hm..Didn't read much of this thesis but did you look at the cited literature? I'm afraid this work might not be the best source to learn about the history and personality behind Chopin's works. Some better sources exists, his own published letters and scholarly sound biographical works.

Sorry, but I am a bit annoyed by all the rubbish that is written about old Fred, making him look like some love and home-sick nerd who just composed music to feel better 

[ajspiano]

Hm..Didn't read much of this thesis but did you look at the cited literature? I'm afraid this work might not be the best source to learn about the history and personality behind Chopin's works. Some better sources exists, his own published letters and scholarly sound biographical works.

Sorry, but I am a bit annoyed by all the rubbish that is written about old Fred, making him look like some love and home-sick nerd who just composed music to feel better 

Well I wouldn't have argued that it was the best option and I didnt look at its references, I just quickly googled something for the sake of that post..

which is why I supplied the source with the quoted paragraph, because i wasnt vouching for it..

I think you'll find that its a common belief that the rev is a work of patriotism though. The exact emotion is obviously a little hard to be sure of.. and its an etude, so it must have some degree of calculation over raw emotion in the writing process..

[pianoplunker]

Hello,

I am interested in playing the Revolutionary Etude of Chopin. However, I think I lack the sufficient techinique in order to learn it.

Do you know which pieces can help me so I can start learning and playing it?

BTW, I am learning the Claire the Lune of Debussy, Intermezzo of Manuel M Ponce and I am thinking in playing a mazurka of Chopin.

Thanks for your advice.

I have never played or even tried to learn the Revolutionary Etude but I do know the best possible piece to help you start to learn and play it is the Revolutionary Etude. Maybe this etude is what you need to learn to play other great music rather than the other way around.  Left hand arpeggios are very common. Maybe the Etude could help you play Claire De Lune better too.

[j_menz]

I have never played or even tried to learn the Revolutionary Etude but I do know the best possible piece to help you start to learn and play it is the Revolutionary Etude.

While that may be true of some other pieces, it is absolutely not true of this, or any other, Chopin Etude.  They are pieces to refine and expand on already developed technique, not places to start learning it. To attempt them without a proper foundation is to risk disappointment and, more importantly, injury.

[outin]

Well I wouldn't have argued that it was the best option and I didnt look at its references, I just quickly googled something for the sake of that post..

which is why I supplied the source with the quoted paragraph, because i wasnt vouching for it..

I think you'll find that its a common belief that the rev is a work of patriotism though. The exact emotion is obviously a little hard to be sure of.. and its an etude, so it must have some degree of calculation over raw emotion in the writing process..

There's no doubt that composing it was influenced by real events. But I would really question whether it was composed in a state of emotion.

The historical facts (mainly his own letters, because even his contemporaries seemed to make him into a mythic figure) about Chopin and also his music suggest that he was actually less passionate about the romantic movement of his age than many of his contemporaries. He admired Mozart above all and also Bach (nobody's perfect  ) and much of his music reflects classical ideas, just taken further in ways that make them more interesting (for me that is). He did participate in at least one letter addressed to the "establishment" of the day, but apart from that there is little evidence that he was really that interested in "political activity", either in music or in any other field. He seemed to have his individual views about how music should be and was probably a perfectionist. He seemed to be a rather self-centered and also a bit vain individual who wanted to "make it" first as a pianist and later as a composer. But it also seems that he had sense of humor, intellect and charm that made him popular among his friends. Reading his letters it seems he was very concerned about making a living from his compositions and teaching, but evidence suggest that he was a spender so was often reliant of his friends in financial matters. I think if he didn't have bad health and didn't die "prematurely" (not really according to standards of those days) he would not have become such a romantic figure at all. He was just a very good and imaginative composer whose music has stood the time very well and is very open to interpretation in its meaning.

[pianoplunker]

While that may be true of some other pieces, it is absolutely not true of this, or any other, Chopin Etude.  They are pieces to refine and expand on already developed technique, not places to start learning it. To attempt them without a proper foundation is to risk disappointment and, more importantly, injury.

While I stick to my disclaimer that I have never learned or played the Revolutionary Etude, I was posting about learning the piece of music more so than learning  the developed technique to learn the piece of music ( hope that makes sense ). But even so, I dont think it ever hurts anyone to try and go out of the box and try something new without worrying they didnt have the proper technique, credentials , or whatever they have been told they need to have to do this or that. I agree with you that one could injure themselves and be dissapointed by not being seasoned enough . But that could happen with any music not just Chopin Etudes.

[j_menz]

While I stick to my disclaimer that I have never learned or played the Revolutionary Etude, I was posting about learning the piece of music more so than learning  the developed technique to learn the piece of music ( hope that makes sense ).

No, not really, how do you learn a piece without having, or developing, the technique to play it?

But even so, I dont think it ever hurts anyone to try and go out of the box and try something new without worrying they didnt have the proper technique, credentials , or whatever they have been told they need to have to do this or that. I agree with you that one could injure themselves and be dissapointed by not being seasoned enough . But that could happen with any music not just Chopin Etudes.

Some pieces, and the Chopin etudes are amongst them, are not something anyone can just approach at any time. They are specifically designed, by Chopin, to do certain things and you need to know what they are trying to achieve and how to approach them. If you just plow right in without that you are unlikely to achieve any sort of satisfactory result, and the  risk of injury is very real.  These etudes are by no means the only, or the worst, in this regard, but they are not to be taken lightly. Injury is a serious matter, and has ruined too many promising pianists.

[pianoplunker]

No, not really, how do you learn a piece without having, or developing, the technique to play it?

Some pieces, and the Chopin etudes are amongst them, are not something anyone can just approach at any time. They are specifically designed, by Chopin, to do certain things and you need to know what they are trying to achieve and how to approach them. If you just plow right in without that you are unlikely to achieve any sort of satisfactory result, and the  risk of injury is very real.  These etudes are by no means the only, or the worst, in this regard, but they are not to be taken lightly. Injury is a serious matter, and has ruined too many promising pianists.

The piece of music itself can be what develops the required technique. To a degree. Not in totality, but to a degree. What I mean is we could open our favorite Hanon book and practice arpeggios all day or we could practice an actual piece of music and learn how to move our left hand up and down the keyboard in an arpeggiated fashion. Although I feel Chopin's music is the greatest piano music ever written, I dont feel anyone should feel intimidated to try it. They will know right away if they are taking on too much.  Injury can happen with ANY music including  12 bar rock/blues stuff. If you are not sitting properly, even the simplest of music can injure you