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Topic: What type of piano is this and how old?  (Read 2686 times)

Offline ashleysgm27

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What type of piano is this and how old?
on: October 15, 2012, 10:13:37 PM
I have no idea what it is. A lady gave it to us when we got married 7 years ago. She wanted it out of her business. It says Humbolt.

Offline iansinclair

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Re: What type of piano is this and how old?
Reply #1 on: October 15, 2012, 10:47:20 PM
ah... hmm.  A picture to two might help...
Ian

Offline ashleysgm27

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Re: What type of piano is this and how old?
Reply #2 on: October 16, 2012, 11:05:50 AM
Here is a picture. That is my hubby sitting on the seat. he was cleaning it for me lol.

Offline indianajo

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Re: What type of piano is this and how old?
Reply #3 on: October 19, 2012, 03:48:13 AM
This is a pre WWII upright piano. There were over a hundred manufacturers in the USA before the great Depression winnowed the names.  Many were competent, many were not.  I suspect if this one has survived this long it is one of the ones with straight hammers and a competent action. My grandmother that lived way up the river in coal country got stuck by a brand that had bent hammers and raveling felt, so results can vary.  WHen properly tuned, you may make an assessment of the sound.  Many of the brands had quite useful fundamental bass notes, for example, compared to post war pianos that used overtones to produce the lower notes.
Another test of the quality of the piano is how fast a single note can be restruck over and over. You do this test with the fingers of two hands, alternating on the same note as fast as possible.   This would determine the difference between a quality fast prewar upright and a run of the mill slower one.
I play a lot of Scott Joplin and the tone of these pianos is more appropriate to that literature than that of the post WWII pianos. I laugh when I hear S. Joplin played by an academic on a modern grand piano.  WONG!  I've been trying to make room to squeeze in a piano of this type in addition to my 1941 Steinway console, before they are all gone. 

Offline ashleysgm27

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Re: What type of piano is this and how old?
Reply #4 on: October 19, 2012, 10:53:21 AM
Thank you so much for the info. How much do you think it is worth, if anything. Do you think it will cost a lot to get tuned? I will check out the keys and how long it plays when I touch one a little later today when everyone isn't asleep :)

Are you saying that this piano is hard to come by today?

Thank you again!!

Offline ranniks

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Re: What type of piano is this and how old?
Reply #5 on: October 19, 2012, 11:59:00 AM
I met a similar one - well, brown - piano. It had no brand on it, but the keys had absolutely no resistance and it needd tuning badly. I think the soundboard was even broken. Playing on it was a bad experience, but nice to see such an old piano, at least 150 years old I think. It was a pretty large upright.

I do hope your piano is working and just needs some tuning/regulation.

Offline richard black

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Re: What type of piano is this and how old?
Reply #6 on: October 19, 2012, 09:10:35 PM
Chances are that it's worth less than the cost of getting it moved. Pianos don't improve with age.
Instrumentalists are all wannabe singers. Discuss.

Offline iansinclair

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Re: What type of piano is this and how old?
Reply #7 on: October 19, 2012, 11:49:23 PM
Chances are that it's worth less than the cost of getting it moved. Pianos don't improve with age.
Probably is worth less than the cost of moving it.  Probably worth less than the cost of tuning it properly and regulating or voicing it.  However... if you have it, and it's not actually broken anywhere (particularly the sound board) it also costs less than getting a different or new one!  Even after you have some work done on it, if it really isn't playable now.  Setting a price on a used piano is, to put it mildly, difficult.  At the risk of a cliche, they are pretty much worth what someone will pay for them.  And, with some exceptions, they aren't all that hard to find.  Look at eBay...

I'd sort of have to differ gently on "don't improve with age".  True enough -- but they also don't get worse, unless they aren't properly maintained or are actively abused.  I will happily put my 1898 Steinway A (original action) up against a brand new one.  They are different, but one is not "worse" than the other...
Ian

Offline ashleysgm27

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Re: What type of piano is this and how old?
Reply #8 on: October 20, 2012, 01:24:04 AM
Okay so the piano plays great! Its just out of tune. I hit a key and it plays normal and i can hit another one. There are 1 or 2 keys that play fine  then go out then come back. I love this piano and never will sell it. I was just curious :) Would it be like 1000 to tune it? Any guestimate will be fine! Thanks again everyone for all of your advice and opinions!

Offline iansinclair

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Re: What type of piano is this and how old?
Reply #9 on: October 20, 2012, 01:46:59 AM
Forward progress!  If you like the piano, and it works, it's worth working on.  Around my way, a simple tuning costs U.S. $ 150, or thereabouts.  Your mileage, as they say, may vary.  However, if the instrument is badly out of tune, or needs to be brought up in pitch any distance, you aren't going to get by with just one tuning.  The way my technician would do it would be to bring it part way up, if the pitch needs raising, and get it in tune with itself, then wait a couple of weeks to a month and bring it the rest of the way up and retune it.  And it may need another tuning in a couple of months.  But it should be quite playable by Christmas! ;D.  After that, unless there are other problems, it shouldn't need tuning more than every three to six months, or even a year -- depending on how fussy your ears are and how much you play it.

You may also find, after you begin playing it more, that the action on some notes needs to be regulated.  My tech., if it's only one or two notes which aren't behaving, puts that in with the tuning -- but that's variable.
Ian

Offline hfmadopter

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Re: What type of piano is this and how old?
Reply #10 on: October 20, 2012, 09:34:45 AM
Quote from: ashley m27 link=topic=48418.msg 526179#msg 526179 date=1350385550
Here is a picture. That is my hubby sitting on the seat. he was cleaning it for me lol.

It looks as though there are three keys that are sagging, not fully returning. Who knows why from a picture  ?! Beyond that with a general tuning and some regulation I wouldn't think the cost to get it up and running would not be more than $300 but that's totally a guess. Have a tech look at it, you have the piano, you have 0 dollars invested in it so far. Have the tech give you an estimate on making it sound decent and making it playable. With so many next to nothing pianos out in the market probably in decent shape it's not worth putting a lot of money into this one. just my opinion.

If you like the piano that's half the battle right there though ! I had an old want to say Bach upright years ago that I liked too, but the action did not keep up with a grand action on that old model. When more and more veneer started ungluing itself I knew it had been abused, though I spent money on regulation and tunings and it sounded decent, I moved on.. I kept that for a couple of years before I got my grand and it got me through John Thompson first couple of books fine enough and a couple of Christmas's worth of carols just fine.. Someone gave me $125 for it, peeling veneer and all ! I'm thinking I paid $75 for it and had moved it to my house on a borrowed truck with a lift gate on it. Myself and two co workers got it into my living room.

Incidentally, people keep bringing up cracked sound boards as being the end of a piano repair. That really doesn't have to be the case at all. They can be glued and shimmed and if pulling away from the ribs, glued and screwed back in. True, in some cases it could be the end but most often not. It's a matter of sight or unsightly vs pristine generally and how that plays on ones mind more say than how the piano plays ! You don't want a beautiful Steinway with a cracked sound board, looking in and seeing it has been shimmed and glued is unsightly but that repair probably has made the piano perfectly playable. In rebuilding the beautiful Steinway the sound board would be replaced. Not so much so on an old upright or just a playable grand even. Often a cracked soundboard buzzes, shimming and gluing gets rid of the buzz and restores the sound to about 98% of original. And that is a very true " believe it or not" !
Depressing the pedal on an out of tune acoustic piano and playing does not result in tonal color control or add interest, it's called obnoxious.

Offline lhorwinkle

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Re: What type of piano is this and how old?
Reply #11 on: October 20, 2012, 03:27:25 PM
Get a technician to look carefully at the piano. He can judge its condition and assess what repairs might be needed.

He might charge $100 or more for the inspection, but it's worth it.

If you don't think it's worth the money, then don't buy this -- or any -- piano. Not even a "free" piano. It's that simple.

Offline lhorwinkle

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Re: What type of piano is this and how old?
Reply #12 on: October 20, 2012, 03:28:58 PM
On re-reading your original post, I saw that you already own this piano. So there's no cost to "buy" it ... it's already yours. But my previous post still applies. You'll need a technician to evaluate the piano.

Offline indianajo

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Re: What type of piano is this and how old?
Reply #13 on: October 22, 2012, 02:23:11 AM
Off brand upright pianos are so common in the midwest that if anybody will give $50 for them it is unusual. A Steinway prewar upright in perfect tune went for $300 recently, and that was a dealer since no end user person wanted it.   Off brand uprights show up 3 times a week in craigslist, often with rediculous prices, but never at Goodwill. I suspect Goodwill and Salvation Army won't accept them as donations. I'm thinking now about a prewar $50 Sohmer upright, one of the premium prewar brands for sale in a really tough neighborhood.  But I would have to throw an organ way or something to make room.   
But, moving an old upright is 4 men and a truck if there is as much as 1 stair.  Costs about $250 over a short distance, so if it is in your house, and the keys don't stick badly, keep it.   Enjoy it.  They can be really great instruments for music of that era.  
I tuned my 1941 Steinway console myself, using a Hammond H100 organ as reference.  Wear safety glasses, occasionally strings break (although mine didn't).  You do have to bring them up gradually over several days, to avoid breaking the strings. The Steinway hadn't been tuned since 1966 and was waaay flat.    Toy keyboards are often $15 at charity resale shops, these can also serve as an inexpensive  pitch reference. The final octave may be a little out because they have "stretch" but you can get pretty close without worrying about it.  I think the H100 organ I used as reference has stretch, it was built to duet with pianos in churches in 1966. My top octave turned out really nicely after syncing to the organ, versus what I had by trying to put top octave unison with the middle octave.  
To tell the truth, I rough tuned my sister in law's import piano last pre-Christmas season, using a tuning fork for a guitar (D) and the rule of fifths. Took about 2-3 hours a day for a couple of days. It hadn't been tuned in 15-20 years.   Got it close enough she could call a pro in and get it finished in one go.  Played some Christmas songs right then and nobody complained.  I'm they only trained musician in the family, anyway.  
Tuning keys (square peg tool) are available online, as are tuning forks.  You could buy dampner sticks for the 3 strings as part of a tuning kit, but if you are only doing one piano you can pluck the strings individually without destroying your fingernails too much. Get a couple of rolls of nickels to hold down your reference key after you play it, and your other key that you are tuning.  
I'm so sick of other piano forums, the answer to every question is "call in a trained piano pro".  If you are a pro player, fine.  If you have an important job and work 100 hours a week, fine.  If your parents are rich and supporting you, fine.  If the piano is an important rare antique, fine.    If you're part timing  or unemployed, making an attempt at improving your old used piano so it doesn't hurt so badly to play it is cheap entertainment.  Then you can practice and build your skills while you have time, before a real job takes you away from your life.
If you have one or two sticking keys, a retired piano salesman tells me the mechanically astute (I'm an ex engineer) can disassemble the action, squeeze out the felt bearings and sand the rubbing parts, without a lot of danger.  I've one sticking key on the 1941 Steinway, am working up the nerve to deal with it this winter. 
The biggest no-go on old pianos is mouse damage or excessive wear on the hammers and dampers, or mouse eaten return leathers or something.  Warped hammer shafts is also a sure sign of go look for something else.  There are too many old uprights to mess with either of those. 

Offline ashleysgm27

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Re: What type of piano is this and how old?
Reply #14 on: October 22, 2012, 01:36:20 PM
Thank you all SO much! I really appreciate all of the advice, opinions, knowledge, etc. I hope  you all have a wonderful week! Thank you all again! :)

Offline deighve

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Re: What type of piano is this and how old?
Reply #15 on: October 28, 2012, 03:50:09 PM
The piano is a furniture.  If you like it in any of the rooms in your house, keep it.  If the sound appeals to you, then this is another reason to keep it.
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