7 repeats =/= 20 minute mastery... ?

[mosis]

I am faced with a quandary.

Today, I was learning the last 3 bars of my Cmin WTC2 Bach Prelude. Since they appear to be the trickiest bars in the whole piece, I was only able to learn one after 7 repeats. However, when I proceeded to repeat it, I could not achieve mastery after 20 minutes. The right hand wasn't so bad, but the left hand was just BRUTAL. I spent at least 35 minutes on this before finally getting it "mastered," and even then, it was pretty shaky and random.

My question is, where did I go wrong? I will try dividing the bar in two for tomorrow's practice, as I'm certain that I can master that quickly, but I would like to know why the 7 repeats dictating a passage to be played were not successful in their purpose.

[Sketchee]

I think if the left hand is brutal then it makes sense to practice just the left hand.  Since the right hand isn't so bad, practice it alone but it will probably take less time to get perfect than the left hand.  Start playing under tempo at a slow enough speed that it feels comfortable and work up.  Then try both hands together under tempo again.  This is what has worked with me for those tricky measures.

[Antnee]

Well you're right. Break it down even further. Even down to two notes if you have to (a bit extreme, but it may be necessary). Once you master the two notes, try adding the next one in sequence and so on and so forth. Do this until you've learned the entire bar.You'll need to master each one until you put them together, and then you'll need to successfully mold them into shape. You spent way too long trying to do something that couldn't be done. Next time if you see a similar situation coming about, just break it down again without wasting all the extra time. Remember, you don't want to program yourself playing it incorrectly. 


-Tony-

[Spatula]

Well you're right. Break it down even further. Even down to two notes if you have to (a bit extreme, but it may be necessary). Once you master the two notes, try adding the next one in sequence and so on and so forth. Do this until you've learned the entire bar.You'll need to master each one until you put them together, and then you'll need to successfully mold them into shape. You spent way too long trying to do something that couldn't be done. Next time if you see a similar situation coming about, just break it down again without wasting all the extra time. Remember, you don't want to program yourself playing it incorrectly. 


-Tony-

Doing two note repetitions is not extreme at all, but an even more efficient way of practicing.  You're actually getting some progress done instead of wasting time on a whole bar.

[mosis]

But it shouldn't have to be broken down further if I learned it after 7 repeats but couldn't achieve the proper tempo.

I suppose I could have employed different practice tricks, though...

[BoliverAllmon]

what is your definition of learned after 7 repeats? I understand the term mastery, but confused on the learned.

boliver

[Antnee]

Mosis...

I take it by learned, you meant that you knew which notes to press.
I think the problem is a misunderstanding of the word mastery. If it was still 'shaky and random' then it was not mastered. Even if you have to do a two note sequence it should be up to tempo, preferably faster (not that difficult), to be mastered technically. Then try the next two notes in the sequence. It should take one practice session to get the two note sequences of one bar up to speed. So that way in the next practice session, you can try to link together the first two two note sequences. So basically the first four notes in the bar. You can do this by practicing the second and third note as another pair of notes to master at tempo. Then link all four together. This step may not be easy, but it will be the most effective.

Now just so I'm not too confusing, lets look at the sheet music.

Lets look at the second to last bar, Right hand. Now let's break down all sixteen notes into groups of two. So, first,  you would practice the G and the A flat up to tempo. It's easy right? Well it should be. Now play the next two notes the B flat and the G. NOw you've mastered these small pieces of the bar up to tempo in virtually no time at all. Now try to combine them by practicing the second and third note in the sequence the A flat and the B flat. Once you've mastered these two together try playing the sequence of four notes it should be easier bacause you've already learned them in small fragments.

The topic you started for Bernhard to answer says basically the same thing. Bernhard tells you how to break down the Chopin etude in to units. (His third post)
Just apply the same basic concept here.

-Tony-

[BoliverAllmon]

ok, so I now know what learned means to an extent. does perfectly mean perfectly every time? I mean can you play it perfectly, but the next time you might make a mistake or something.

boliver

[mound]

Look at Reply #14 here:
https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,4750.0.html

[mosis]

Reply #49 in that thread is better. It address the question on mastery that I specifically posed.