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loneliness (Read 6605 times)

Offline henrikhank

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loneliness
« on: October 21, 2012, 12:36:56 PM »
Pax!
I've been listening to some documentaries on the famous keyboardists and it seems like most of them were lonely and introvert people. What do you think? Are keyboardists generally introvert people (not that his must be something bad)?

Offline outin

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Re: loneliness
«Reply #1 on: October 21, 2012, 12:53:21 PM »
Pax!
I've been listening to some documentaries on the famous keyboardists and it seems like most of them were lonely and introvert people. What do you think? Are keyboardists generally introvert people (not that his must be something bad)?

Could be... piano is a very self suffcient instrument, most require playing with others to get really interesting. So it might draw in people who like to practice/perform alone. Also I guess you can get really good at piano without ever playing together with others, so it doesn't matter if you don't like people or not.

The loneliness might come from the lifestyle, but being introvert also can enable one to live like that instead of having a happy social life.

Offline iansinclair

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Re: loneliness
«Reply #2 on: October 22, 2012, 01:29:23 AM »
I'm not sure that it is just keyboardists.  I suspect a good many performing artists are at least somewhat introverted.  If only, perhaps, that it is so difficult to be sufficiently dedicated to one's art to "make it", but it is so satisfying when one does, that one tends to neglect social contacts.  And also it can be very difficult to explain what one is doing, never mind why, to others.

Or something like that?
Ian

Offline faulty_damper

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Re: loneliness
«Reply #3 on: October 22, 2012, 06:01:50 AM »
I'm recalling research but the significant majority of soloist performers are introverts.  Don't quote me on this but the percentage was 80% introverted in the performing arts.

Offline henrikhank

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Re: loneliness
«Reply #4 on: October 22, 2012, 12:04:20 PM »
I'm recalling research but the significant majority of soloist performers are introverts. 
and although they are introverted they want to become famous people

Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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Re: loneliness
«Reply #5 on: October 22, 2012, 12:13:20 PM »
and although they are introverted they want to become famous people

Hhahahahaha that's kind of funny.
Live large, die large.  Leave a giant coffin.

Offline faulty_damper

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Re: loneliness
«Reply #6 on: October 22, 2012, 08:14:12 PM »
and although they are introverted they want to become famous people
No, the vast majority of them don't.  Most are happy just to do it because they love it.

Offline iansinclair

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Re: loneliness
«Reply #7 on: October 22, 2012, 09:59:25 PM »
No, the vast majority of them don't.  Most are happy just to do it because they love it.
My son and daughter in law -- now both retired -- shed some light on this.  Before they retired they were the premier danseur and danseuse of an international ballet company -- one of the top ten in North America.  Both are introverted -- my son less so, but my daughter in law is painfully shy.  Both of them developed careers in dance and rose to the top not because they wanted to become famous, but simply because they loved what they were doing.

Now it is quite true that if they did not get a warm reception from an audience they were very disappointed -- but not because of the lack of warmth, but because they felt that it meant they had given a bad performance (it usually didn't, by the way -- but bad choreography, like bad music, will do in the best efforts of anyone!).  Their worst moments were the occasional meet and greet with the major donors to the company which they had to endure (the donors paid the bills, after all).  Their idea of a great way to celebrate a performance was to meet me at the stage door, duck into my car (dressed in jeans, I might add) and head for the nearest burger joint, usually still somewhere up on Cloud 9.

And they are perfectly happy now, being respectively Joe Student and Mrs. Mom...  do they miss the "roar of the greasepaint and the smell of the crowd"?  Sure.  They're human.  A SRO audience on its feet, wildly cheering, is not be ignored.  Indeed, it is exalting.  But did they want to be famous, no.
Ian

Offline faulty_damper

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Re: loneliness
«Reply #8 on: October 23, 2012, 01:25:45 AM »
Few people achieve great things because they set out to do "great things."  They achieve great things incidentally because of their love, passion, and interest in them.  It helps that they can spend great deals of time and energy toward it and it helps that their personalities allow them to do it.  This is why intraverts dominate the visual and performing arts, or writers, and many other solo occupations.  Loneliness is a side effect of that intraversion since people who spend a great deal of time focusing on something don't go out much or have a large social circle.

Offline nyiregyhazi

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Re: loneliness
«Reply #9 on: October 23, 2012, 02:49:54 AM »
Few people achieve great things because they set out to do "great things."  They achieve great things incidentally because of their love, passion, and interest in them.  

To suggest that these are independent is missing the point, in my opinion. It's not a simplistic divide. People generally strive to do great things BECAUSE of the passion. Passion for music alone often leads to a mediocre standard,  unless the pianist engages in work that is specifically out of desire to do greater things- rather than passion for every piece being played. In other cases, there may be a kind of workman like "passion" for developing mechnical technique- with the deeper passion for actual music making arising later on. It makes no sense to make artificial segregations of the background motivation.

Offline quantum

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Re: loneliness
«Reply #10 on: October 23, 2012, 04:02:33 AM »
A presenter in one of the music conferences I attended did an unscientific study of how many people in attendance thought they were introverts.  75% of the room considered themselves introverts, the other 25% extroverts.  The population was mostly made up of pianists, organists and choir directors. 
Made a Liszt. Need new Handel's for Soler panel & Alkan foil. Will Faure Stein on the way to pick up Mendels' sohn. Josquin get Wolfgangs Schu with Clara. Gone Chopin, I'll be Bach

Offline hfmadopter

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Re: loneliness
«Reply #11 on: October 24, 2012, 09:33:55 AM »
Quote from: quantum link=topic=48472.msg 527141#msg 527141 date=1350964953
A presenter in one of the music conferences I attended did an unscientific study of how many people in attendance thought they were introverts.  75% of the room considered themselves introverts, the other 25% extroverts.  The population was mostly made up of pianists, organists and choir directors.  

That sounds right to me. Now how about within ones self ? For example, I consider myself introvert first but extroverted enough to want to share my music when I play it well or have worked to perform it. Extravert enough to openly teach piano to someone who cares about it enough to stick with it. I am not shy to play my piano in a crowd if I've readied myself to do so. However I am fully content to live in a very small circle of friends and my own family, practice 4.5 hours in a day vs meeting people in a club or attending meetings, especially attending meetings at work, I hate meetings at work in fact ! I even work alone in a big company, in my own space and am fine with that vs going to those damned foolish and mandatory meetings.

Yes, I am an introvert first and I think in our work shops we had in piano lessons years ago, most who attended I would say were introverts first. It takes great inner control to get serious with music, it will attract introverts, IMO.. Not exclusively though.
Depressing the pedal on an out of tune acoustic piano and playing does not result in tonal color control or add interest, it's called obnoxious.

Offline oxy60

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Re: loneliness
«Reply #12 on: October 24, 2012, 10:05:39 AM »
To be really good at what we do requires practicing every day. Just maintaining that schedule means we must occasionally turn down invitations to "stay a while." Any participation in any group must be weighed against our regular practice.

If our instrument is not a piano then our social circle is limited to the group in which we rehearse or perform.

These reasons alone will limit our possibilities for social interaction. It's that simple.
"In every walk with nature one receives far more than he seeks."  John Muir  (We all need to get out more.)

Offline faulty_damper

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Re: loneliness
«Reply #13 on: October 24, 2012, 09:59:55 PM »
If our instrument is not a piano then our social circle is limited to the group in which we rehearse or perform.

These reasons alone will limit our possibilities for social interaction. It's that simple.

Intraversion is one reason why intraverts take up solitary activities.  Intraverts tend to avoid large groups.  Playing an instrument has the added benefit of taking up time and avoids undesirable social situations.  But, we don't take up piano to avoid people.  We'd avoid people simply because we don't feel comfortable in such groups.

Offline oxy60

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Re: loneliness
«Reply #14 on: October 25, 2012, 02:39:36 PM »
Intraversion is one reason why intraverts take up solitary activities.  Intraverts tend to avoid large groups.  Playing an instrument has the added benefit of taking up time and avoids undesirable social situations.  But, we don't take up piano to avoid people.  We'd avoid people simply because we don't feel comfortable in such groups.

Yes, to a certain extent but there must be groups that in which one would feel comfortable. If there are no groups where one would feel comfortable then there is have a problem. And don't be too picky. Nobody is perfect, not even you.

Now one quick word to all you young single adults. Make sure your future mate is involved or has been involved in some sort of show business (where the "show must go on").  Otherwise they won't understand your dedication.
"In every walk with nature one receives far more than he seeks."  John Muir  (We all need to get out more.)

Offline iansinclair

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Re: loneliness
«Reply #15 on: October 25, 2012, 08:36:20 PM »
...Now one quick word to all you young single adults. Make sure your future mate is involved or has been involved in some sort of show business (where the "show must go on").  Otherwise they won't understand your dedication.
Verily verily!  See my comment earlier about my son and daughter in law.  They would neither of them have gotten as far as they did without the other -- but they'd never have gotten anywhere without their partner being in the business!  And the partner really does have to be in the business, and not just a happy happy amateur.  The only real alternative is the future mate is equally dedicated, but to something else -- in which case you probably won't see much of each other.
Ian