University Programs: What should I go into?

[donjuan]

Greetings my Friends,
I have a feeling many people in this forum are a) age 15 - 25 and b) not going into music in university.  This question is directed at you.

I am currently doing my last year of high school, and need to start getting an idea of what to go into next year in University.  I love music, but havent attempted any exams.  Therefore, it would be very difficult to get going in the faculty of music with the stiff competition of students who know their theory and technique like the back of their hand.

Frankly, I havent even decided between Science or Arts.  I was thinking about Law, Business, Pharmacy, and Veterinary medicine.  If there is anyone here who is/did go into these programs, please tell me about your experiences and offer suggestions.

This question is not about whether or not I am going into music.  I made up my mind and dicided it would be my hobby- my way of expressing myself.  I just want to know what other people who presently are in/have been in my situation.  I would love it if you help me understand why you took a certain program (like business, for example) and perhaps because we all share a common interest (music) I can understand why I would love or apall it.

I should probably talk to a career counsellor about this, but they arent actually allowed to give advice.  Please! Advice me to death!

Thanks so much,
donjuan

[Spatula]

Sure thing Don Juan.  I’ll advise you to death.

This first part is a bit of an intro and a very brief look at how to learn from the ropes (hint hint Don Juan you should pay attention because the profs don’t teach this, this stuff is up to you)

After that I’ll talk about what I personally felt between Music program and whatever else I was taking as courses. 

I remember one time after attending a few graduate piano recitals at the University where their performances were stunning and beautiful.  And I was just pondering and thinking to myself, oh man if I could play like that!  I would give up my major in economics any day of the week to immediately switch into the music program.  As a matter of fact, I started to get as far as talking to some of the people in the faculty (which is what you should be doing now Don Juan as you’re going to do your diploma exams the coming May 2005.  But even before then, perhaps I’m guessing you’re going to U of A or some campus close by.  Phone them up and ask to see if you can talk to an academic advisor for the faculty of music.  Again I don’t know where your future ambitions will lead you but… give these doors a try because you never know. 

And about them not being able to give you advice, I think what they’re trying to say is that they can’t dictate how to run your life, but they are there to say:

1)   how long the music program should take
2)   how many courses are there and what are the prerequisites
3)   what is the drop out rate from that faculty
4)   what are the entrance requirements


Basically, ask objective questions, not questions such as: oh I did my grade 10 piano and got first class honors, how will I do in your program?” That’s obviously difficult to answer right?  If they couldn’t at least give a reasonable answer to the 4 questions, I have no clue why the hell they’re called “Advice counselors or program counselors” in the first place.

There are other institutions in the US such as Rice University where Jon Kimura Parker (born in BC), teaches.  It really depends what the requirements they are looking for as well as an entrance or audition performance.  I must warn you though that the audition is usually a one shot deal.  This is where they separate the professionals from the amateurs. 

There is a music program at the U of C but it’s umm…pretty sh1tty to say the least.  The actual students in that program are very talented but the support given is next to nil.  There is a pretty cruel joke that I used to laugh about but now I bite my lip:

Bachelor in Engineering / Infinity = Bachelor of Arts in Music. 

If you’ve taken Calculus, then you should get that joke by the way.

Then perhaps ask them if where the best is place or spot to meet up with say 4th year students.  Try to talk to the senior students as they will have a better picture than a freshman or sophomore. 

From a friend who’s gone through this music program at the U of C, she says it’s all a matter of personality and as well as the ability to really coordinate as well as plan your time effectively.  If you dick around until the exams come, you’re screwed.

Right now this would technically be my 3rd year of Economics, but no longer am I an economist, because:

A)   I hate the advanced courses in economics
B)   I have no interest in theories of economics and find it personally very difficult to apply to the world today, although there are a lot of economic issues out there
C)   I’d rather study either Accounting or Music.  But realistically I’m in Business at SAIT, because U of C is super anal and tries to make their business faculty top notch by forcing new students who apply to get an insanely difficult GPA of 3.7 or above. 


Here’s the biggies:

I feel that in university, you’re definitely not spoon fed anymore and you have to take your education into your own hands.  The teacher won’t sit around and wait…they’ll teach what they want to teach but its really up to the mercy of the prof of the material.  Don’t worry though, most 1st year courses are designed so that as long as you GO TO CLASS and don’t skip (university doesn’t give a rats arse if you attend or skip, as long as you pay the tuition, not like High School) and do the reading, you’re already bound for at least a B minus to A.

1st year classes in most faculties just basically help the newbies get acquainted with how the university works.  I think that if you take 4 courses, you should still have enough time to get 2-3 hours of piano practice done, even though there’s reading assignments etc. 

The reason that you’ve got more time allotted to yourself is simply because of the absence of frequent quizzes and exams (except certain courses like math).  Usually there is 1 main term paper to write, 1 midterm exam in the middle of the course, and 1 final exam.  However with these components, if you screw up the biggies like the midterm and final, you’re ummm…screwed. 

However in most cases, as long as you give a sh1t about the course, you should even be able to scrape off with a C plus, but that’s with minimal preparation and studying.

And for highlighting in textbooks.  I personally don’t highlight in them for 2 reasons:

1)   It makes the text looks super eye-unfriendly no matter how neat you do it….when you look at your text book after, it looks like a mine field of information rather than a summary (quite paradoxical isn’t it?)

2)   If you miss an important issue or concept in your first time reading through (yes Don Juan, it’s best to read the chapter more than once), then your highlighted stuff will totally skip it as well as your eyes. 

3)   Instead you should actually copy out by hand the notes or important concepts in the book for two reasons,: you have a summary of the important stuff, your brain is actively receiving information rather than just scanning of the stuff that’s highlighted.

Now that’s a secret that many people have to find out themselves but I’m giving you a studying tip freebie.

Now back to your question. 

I think Piano will definitely help in your studies because it takes time away from silent sitting and books and doing whatever besides studying.  Piano is a good alternative than going to that damned tavern and getting hammered on Booze just before the exams. 

Also, having an instrument skill quickly helps you feel more self esteemed that you know you now have 2 sides of and education.  You are in business for example, and that you have training in the art and craft of an instrument.  The music faculty usually focuses and specializes in on the very fundamentals you are taught but raises it to an nth degree.  I also find that piano was an awesome medium to connect through to some of the things that I liked.  For example, even in U of C, there were still an abundance of students that like video games.  And that was when I was learning the final fantasy pieces so somehow I could still connect with piano as well as pop culture and entertainment. 

One of the things as well was that I didn’t feel so alone even though sometimes people have classes to go to etc, I knew that I could keep up with a hobby by going to websites about piano and to have a healthy side piece of “artistic nourishment” of piano.  Starting September 2005, I bet you’ll start to want to have a “comfort blanket” but even I do too! To secure that the process of entering university isn’t the same as entering high school.  You’ll almost feel like you’re at a job and people are going to expect certain things from you.  You will being to change your beliefs and attitudes.  For me, the U of C totally changed a lot of perspectives that I had before. 

University I find changes how people look at things.  Before I was very sheltered and wanted to stay in my comfort zone.  But now I’m always continually searching and asking and seeking, even though I may say something wrong, I know that I’m constantly maturing as I interact and ask questions.  Don Juan, something you gotta do to both mature your passion for piano as well as mature your thinking (I’m not saying you’re immature, but you’re still young right? and have lots to learn about the world) 
The more inquisitive you are, the more structure and more passionate your pursuit of being able to find new ways to look back upon an old repertoire of piano and see it in a different light.

Business is very practical and it doesn’t contain too much behind the scenes theory stuff like economics.  If you like abstract, then go for philosophy or fine arts like drawing and pottery etc.  But still I find that music is a perfect complement for many of the faculties available (except engineering, because engineers have to study like hell even for the 1st years.  The eng faculty purposely makes exams hard to fail the sloppy and not so bright students.  They push you so hard and will only let you breath after your finals.  The 2nd year for eng isn’t too bad because you made the first part of the cut off)

I have also talked to friends that the Music program is very tough but extremely personally rewarding, where the final recital that you must give in order to graduate with your diploma is both scary, and heart exhilarating.  It’s pretty much do or die.  Four years of studies investing and focus for this one very performance.

But if I can think of any thing else…then I’ll post it again.

I hope this helps,

Good Luck!

Guru Spatula

[donjuan]

wow, thanks spatula!  My sister currently does Pharmacy at the U of A, so I understand how the University works compared to high school.

I actually was considering Business..I would have to take various economics, statistics, and math classes in my preprofessional year to qualify for business.  Spatula, I remember you told me before what your job was - some cushy desk job where you crunch mumbers...  That doesnt sound too bad to me.  Tell me, do you enjoy your work?  What is it like at SAIT studying business?  What kind of career do you plan to take from business school? - Accounting? Marketing? Finance?  I want your response because I need to know if it's something I would love.  We both love music, maybe we both love business too..

I dont think there is any chance of me going into music.  It's like any fine art- if you arent absolutely phenominal, you are dirt poor.  I am far too ambitious (I love having money and buying stuff) to go for it.

I found your paragraph about applying music to school very enlightening and encouraging.  I feel better now - like just because I am not going into music doesnt mean the hours of practice are for nothing.

thanks spatula,
donjuan

[Tash]

my only advice for you is do whatever you really really want to do, and don't let your parents influence your choice cos they don't know what they're talking about!

i had the same problem as you last year, i love love love piano and music and would adore doing it as a career, but there's no way in hell i could ever be a concert pianist cos i'm nowhere near good enough. and then i discovered that i have more of an interest in musicology anyway. i considered becoming a music teacher, except i think that'd kill me. so i stuck to the other thing i absolutely adore, whether i love it more than music or not i'm not 100% sure, like i love painting and drawing, but i'm more interested in music history than art history. but i had the fantastic chance to do both fine arts (painting) and arts at uni, and could thus major in music, which for me is just on the side and is there purely for my interest.

so if you do have the option, you could do arts as well if they offer combined degrees, that way you can do music as well, but it's not the full music degree so you're not expected to be a complete freak or whatever. in fact at UNSW (my uni) my music classes don't even involve playing the piano, they're all theory, and then i do a performance group, except i chose choir cos the others clashed with other subjects.

from looking at my friends and the courses they chose, don't just choose anything. if you're not interested in it, or only semi-interested you'll probably be bored as hell. like this is just from the experience of people i know who have had this problem- a couple have already dropped out- it might not be the same for you.

i have a friend doing vet and she loves it cos she's obsessed with it. it's a hell of a lot of work though, like she's probably got the most hours at uni out of all my friends. Law, everyone does law! i have a couple of friends loving it, but it's a very competitive world cos there's so many people doing it.

however uni might be completely different in canada, thus you should come to australia to uni!!! yeah so do what you really want to do and are prepared to put the effort into. good luck with your choices:)

[Spatula]

For my job, right now I’m working as an accounts payable administrator (hehe I just heard that I’ll get a raise soon, btw I’m on salary)

This job is definitely the best so far, even though during the busy times its like hell trying to catch up with all the invoices and the filing that has to be done, and taking care of phone calls each day.  But still I managed to get this job by temping for them first because they needed someone to do data entry.  But I took initiative to really want to stay there full time and so eventually they said I did a kick ass job and even replaced the personal that originally was in my spot.  She was fired a few months before I temped and so they were trying to find someone to fill her spot.  And they just happened to hire a kitchen utensil to do the job.

And now for SAIT, I like it a hell lot more than U of C because I find even the students and teachers more open and willing to help you around school and stuff.  I just found the economics and business people at UC so way, way, way too stuck up and they were so damned egotistical.  The business route through SAIT I find is more logical and even they have a 4 year program where I get a degree which is recognized the same as a university degree.  Right now I’m working about 40 hours a week and do night classes 3 times a week. It’s tiring but at least its not as stressful as full time studies.

By the way Don Juan,  there is no law in the world that says you must do like 5 courses at the same time even if you’re full time uni student. I personally would now only do 3-4 courses a term because you gotta think about what the hell the whole point of a uni degree is: to get a job!

So why rush and try to compact all your studies into 4 freaking years? You’re not going to enjoy uni if you rush it and try to rush out the door with degree in hand, but then find you’re at a loop hole because you don’t have proper experience.

On the other hand, if you take fewer courses, which in turn will take more years at uni, you’ll soon learn how to pace yourself and even free up more time for piano.  Say for example mike and bob go to U of A. 

Mike wants to do business for 4 years and get the hell out into the workforce.  He’s compacting all that crap into his head and doesn’t have a clue how to take on life because he’s too self absorbed. 

Now take bob for example, he’s doing business as well but takes 6 years to do it.  He’s more relaxed and wants to enjoy and take his time, and there’s absolutely nothing wrong with that.  What he realizes is very crucial: just because you have a degree 2 years sooner doesn’t necessarily mean you have the 1st shot at jobs, simply because there will always be jobs available (some years more some years less).

As a matter of fact, Bob even takes more time to find work in between semesters to both put some meat on his resume.  He now has practical work experience, more time to do his personal interests, and now a university degree.

It’s totally useless to try to rush out in the workforce when you only have 1 thing on your resume and its your degree.  Even bob now can put that he’s had greater exposure to what he wants in life because he was able to do piano, and piano requires an intense amount of persistence and effort, which employers can see and realize that bob knows he’s just not in for the money, but for life experiences.

Same with me.  Right now I’m guessing it’d take another 2 years since I’m a part time student JUST to get a college diploma (the 2 year curriculum), then another 2-3 years to get the degree (the 4 year program).  After getting my degree, I plan on getting a CGA designation and still will be able to have time for piano. 

You see the difference Don Juan? Haste makes Waste.  I’m even satisfied and pleased with the accounting work I’m doing now because that’s what future employers want to see: if I can do the job or not.  I know I’ll get a degree sooner or later, but more importantly is that I have significant job references.  A degree can’t automatically guarantee you’ll get good references, but if you start out slow and build up your resume with work experience, you still have a good chance of getting your degree, it’s then just a matter of when you’ll get it.

[donjuan]

Thanks both of you for your great advice!
Spatula, the only reason why I wouldnt want to do business in 6 years instead of 4 is because I think I would have to pay 2 more years worth of tuition.  Now, we are talking about 10 000$ here..(Please tell me if I am wrong about having to pay more)

Now Tash, I understand you are currently working towards an arts degree, majoring in music.  What do you plan on doing as a career?  Where do you want to go after getting the degree?

Thanks again,
donjuan

[Tash]

well it's fine arts/arts, so basically it's gonna be the fine arts side that is supposedly taking me into my career path, except i don't really need a degree to do it. i want to be an illustrator, like for children's books and stuff, and then have my own (gift) card company of some sort, and then maybe just be a straight aritist as well i'm not too sure. and if something to do with music that i'd like to do comes along then i'll take that into consideration as well. for me uni is just to extend my knowledge of music and work on my painting technique and to learn as much about that sort of stuff possible. i'd like to get a travelling scholarship after uni and go to europe or something and do whatever. i dunno, i'll find out when i get there!

[Spatula]

A course is generally costing $500. 
Now in your program you'll probably need to do around 40 courses or so.
That's $20000, double your initial amount.  Now remember that when you're doing more years, you're going to perportionately do less courses per semester.

Okay, lets say you're going to do 4 years.  Each semester you must take at least 5 courses, so thats 10 courses per year.  You're looking at $5000 per year which is common for many full time uni students.  Even I've shelled out about that much for the first and second year.

Now how about doing only 7 courses per year... that's $3500 per year.

Now it take about 5.75 or basically 5 and a semester years.  So 5.5 years times $3500 ( I know the math is a bit off) is about $20000.

 Remember books are about $300 - 500 per SEMEMSTER as well. 

Well...its totally up to you to see what kind of course load you can take.
Here's a hint.  Most faculties start off relatively easy and slow, so do 10 courses in your first year.  Now the 2nd year courses start to get a bit more complexed, so cut back to 8 courses a year.  Remember that you can also get

Did you receive an Alexander Rutherford Scholarship?  That should help for about $1500 to $2500. 

well tell me what you think.

[donjuan]

A course is generally costing $500. 
Now in your program you'll probably need to do around 40 courses or so.
That's $20000, double your initial amount.  Now remember that when you're doing more years, you're going to perportionately do less courses per semester.

Okay, lets say you're going to do 4 years.  Each semester you must take at least 5 courses, so thats 10 courses per year.  You're looking at $5000 per year which is common for many full time uni students.  Even I've shelled out about that much for the first and second year.

Now how about doing only 7 courses per year... that's $3500 per year.

Now it take about 5.75 or basically 5 and a semester years.  So 5.5 years times $3500 ( I know the math is a bit off) is about $20000.

 Remember books are about $300 - 500 per SEMEMSTER as well. 

Well...its totally up to you to see what kind of course load you can take.
Here's a hint.  Most faculties start off relatively easy and slow, so do 10 courses in your first year.  Now the 2nd year courses start to get a bit more complexed, so cut back to 8 courses a year.  Remember that you can also get

Did you receive an Alexander Rutherford Scholarship?  That should help for about $1500 to $2500. 

well tell me what you think.

no no no.. spatula, I was wondering if I have to pay the extra fee for taking more years.  like, I thought I have to pay a price just to study at the university, and then add on course fees.  Am I mistaken?
donjuan

[Spatula]

ER...I don't think that there are any more fees...just tuition deposits (which basically are credits that work into your tuition fee)

For example, if the U of A wants you to first pay $100 for your deposit, then you will receive $100 credit once you pay it so it will be applied to a course you'll take, so that course will only cost $400 instead of $500.

Again, this is a U of C thing, but you should ask these types of questions to the academic advisor.  I'm not the U of A...hehhe

[donjuan]

Yeah Spatula, you are right... I should ask my sister about this stuff rather than bug you. sorry..
donjuan

[Spatula]

No worries, I was aiming more for the piano part.  Because I'm sure the academic advisor's not gonna listen to your passion for piano (they'd be like...next please)

(yeah...it's a harsh harsh world, but somebody's gotta live it )