Piano Street Competition - Round 1

[j_menz]

Here is the CD graphics

..so that J_menz can properly assess the discs validity as a coaster.

Corporate access filter says no - will have to check it out tonight.

[j_menz]

..This is the product of the time that I would perhaps refer to as "7 months worth of weekends that I could've spent practising the piano" ...not that I regret it, it was a lot of fun.

And four minutes of my life I'll never get back! 

Was the falsetto you?

[lostinidlewonder]

Ill be happy to donate time to adjudicate if there isn't like 50+ competitor (I read you want to limit to 15 but you never know how popular these things can get). I don't think it is fair to have professional pianist vs amateur. Why is this interesting event in Student Corner? There should also be a selection of two or more set pieces, listening to the same piece 50 times is mind numbing. Public voting doesn't really work because you have friends voting for friends and the competition results become more of a popularity contest.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

I don't think it is fair to have professional pianist vs amateur.

J_MENZ!!!

[j_menz]

[Giant]J_MENZ!!![/Giant][/u]

My name in lights at last. 


As an amateur, I'm quite happy to go up against professionals.  I think the aim of a competition such as this is to learn, much more than to actually win, and seeing what others can do with the same piece is at the heart of that. 

What you gain from the experience is going to be far more beneficial than a silicon embodiment of AJ's misspent youth anyway. 

[rachmaninoff_forever]

My name in lights at last.  


As an professional, I'm quite happy to go up against amateurs.  I think the aim of a competition such as this is to learn, much more than to actually win, and seeing what others can do with the same piece is at the heart of that.  

What you gain from the experience is going to be far more beneficial than a silicon embodiment of AJ's misspent youth anyway.  

Fixed.

You're welcome.

[lostinidlewonder]

I've attended and adjudicated a few open competitions which allow professionals and all the time the pro wins. It makes the competition extremely one sided and toooo easy to judge IMHO. But it's all good, just a suggestion to maintain balance of this competition. Competitions are meant to be won, yes it is an experience but people are interested to see who is best on the day, when its clear who is best it can make things dull.

[j_menz]

You're welcome.

And you're nuts. 

[j_menz]

when its clear who is best it can make things dull.

But we don't know enough about each other, really, to jump to any conclusions there.

[keypeg]

....  people are interested to see who is best on the day...

Seeing who is considered "best" of the day is the most boring thing I can imagine, which is probably why I usually stay away from competitions.  Not when musicians or music students are concerned.  If we are not learning or exploring, what the heck are we doing? 

[rachmaninoff_forever]

And you're nuts. 

Walnuts.  Because I'm allergic to peanuts.

[j_menz]

Walnuts.  Because I'm allergic to peanuts.

I was thinking more wingnut.

[outin]

I was thinking more wingnut.

I am allergic to most nuts. In general I prefer the traditional Hex nuts....

EDIT
Although I was once saved from starving to death by a wing nut.

I was in a hotel room in Stockholm (Swedes  )and went to take a shower. Slammed the shower booth doors shut and when I was finished...the other door was stuck! There was an opening for about 25cm and I am not quite that thin... So there I was...water available, but no one to really miss me until the next day. And no tools of course (never take a shower without tools again).

So my options were to break the glass (and hurt myself), climb over it (too high) or figure out a better way. After using all the nasty words I could think of I did some investigating and was really lucky to find out that the sliding door was held up by a kind of a wing nut instead a normal one. So no tools required and off came the whole door and I was free 

[lostinidlewonder]

I've always thought of a competition as being about seeing who wins and who is victorious for the day. Sure you can enjoy many other things but in the end its about seeing who did the best.  Ive heard a few these people entering play piano before and can have a good idea who will be the main contenders But of course microphone quality and piano instrument quality might play a big role also.

[keypeg]

I've always thought of a competition as being about seeing who wins and who is victorious for the day. Sure you can enjoy many other things but in the end its about seeing who did the best. 

Seeing who is judged the best - that is not the same as seeing who "is" the best, or even if there is such a thing when you are talking about music.  I think that competitions are used as a way to motivate people to try their best, because in some people that is what motivates them.  This is music and not a horse race.  There are interpretations and tastes.  Since it is about music, surely we can enjoy whatever depth and interest is there.  At least, that is what I intend to do.

[starstruck5]

Having entered composition competitions on another site, I have generally found that the winner is the one who has the most friends -unless there is a neutral judge or two -Perhaps we could ask Valentina Listisa and Lang Lang to be judges! lol

I am not entering to win anyway -my reasons are motivational -I know that a few of the entrants are at a very high level -all a person can do is try their hardest though -and try to learn something. -

My second piece btw will be the Schubert Eb Impromptu -OP 90 No.2

[slobone]

Seeing who is judged the best - that is not the same as seeing who "is" the best, or even if there is such a thing when you are talking about music.  I think that competitions are used as a way to motivate people to try their best, because in some people that is what motivates them.  This is music and not a horse race.  There are interpretations and tastes.  Since it is about music, surely we can enjoy whatever depth and interest is there.  At least, that is what I intend to do.

I think you're right there -- the purpose of a competition of this kind (where nothing really is at stake) is to motivate people to bring a piece up to the level where it's good enough to play in front of other pianists. Surely that has a value in and of itself? I agree that the results shouldn't be taken too seriously.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

Valentina Listisa to be judges! lol

That would be the perfect opportunity to charm her with my music!

Practice practice practice!!!

[lostinidlewonder]

If the result is not to be taken seriously we might as well pull a name out of a hat instead of judge it with close considerations The Audition room acts as a motivation for people to practice so others can listen, a competition which this is trying to be should be different from this. I feel if people enter competitions with "oh ill just have a go" type attitude they miss out on what competing is really about, it might be an emotional defense mechanism to treat the competition with lesser intensity so that if you lose it doesnt matter, but we should experience losing, its good for you, so when you win you know you worked hard to do it.

[lloyd_cdb]

If the result is not to be taken seriously we might as well pull a name out of a hat instead of judge it with close considerations

Everyone still has something to learn, and I'm sure we can each learn from each other.  Boiling it down to winner/loser is silly, especially when comparing people of different skill levels.  The intent is to figure out how we can organize it more effectively in the future, not to crown a piano street bigwig and tell everyone else to quit the forums.

[lostinidlewonder]

Why should we call it a competition then?

[lloyd_cdb]

Why should we call it a competition then?

Because it was intended to be that way.  The problem was that we were spending so much time debating on how to organize it, so we just decided to start instead of have strict guidelines.  I'm not sure the naming of it should matter given the intent is for future competitions.

[j_menz]

Why should we call it a competition then?

Because there is a winner and a prize!

[keypeg]

Why should we call it a competition then?

Because it was set up as one.  The thought behind it, as I understand it, was that competitions motivate people to participate and increasing participation was the goal.

[lostinidlewonder]

I'm not asking to organise anything in a particular way, just questioning how this competition is being perceived. If it is a competition having pros vs amatures will make the result quite easy to determine especially if the pros have pro tools to record with. There should be some standard like no digital piano recordings because in all honesty they really suck bad.

Competition is about winners and those that don't win and working out what line separates the two. This can be very exciting I think and can teach people a great deal understanding what quality is about. I think that playing ability will play some part to the result but recording quality and instrument quality will also contribute to a large amount. So a great pianist with crappy pianos/recording equipment might indeed lose to someone who is a lesser player but the quality of their presentation is much higher. This is the nature of recorded competitions and is pretty cool because its different from normal live competitions.

[outin]

Because it was set up as one.  The thought behind it, as I understand it, was that competitions motivate people to participate and increasing participation was the goal.

But it all became about the prize after ajs announced it!

[keypeg]

But it all became about the prize after ajs announced it!

Why not find out if this is what it is about for people.  I am one of the participants.  That is not my reason for joining in.  Others?

[outin]

Why not find out if this is what it is about for people.  I am one of the participants.  That is not my reason for joining in.  Others?

I just cannot imagine that someone would not desperately want that CD...

But obviously everyone have their own reasons to participate, the competitive element may be the most important of those reasons or it could be non-existent (as it would be with me). Who cares really? It's a competition so winners and prizes are somehow expected, but those who do not care can just ignore them. If they happen to win anyway, they can always decline the prize altogether 

[lloyd_cdb]

I'm not asking to organise anything in a particular way, just questioning how this competition is being perceived. If it is a competition having pros vs amatures will make the result quite easy to determine especially if the pros have pro tools to record with.

This is something that we had discussed.  However, it was decided that we have no idea how to set up different difficulty groups until we actually tried it.  It's entirely possible people like a recording by one of the less experienced members.  It's also entirely possible the professionals win and we'd have to split up into more accurately defined groups.  The problem comes in that you don't know until you try.

[starstruck5]

I'm not asking to organise anything in a particular way, just questioning how this competition is being perceived. If it is a competition having pros vs amatures will make the result quite easy to determine especially if the pros have pro tools to record with. There should be some standard like no digital piano recordings because in all honesty they really suck bad.Competition is about winners and those that don't win and working out what line separates the two. This can be very exciting I think and can teach people a great deal understanding what quality is about. I think that playing ability will play some part to the result but recording quality and instrument quality will also contribute to a large amount. So a great pianist with crappy pianos/recording equipment might indeed lose to someone who is a lesser player but the quality of their presentation is much higher. This is the nature of recorded competitions and is pretty cool because its different from normal live competitions.


[/quote/


I may have no choice but to record on a digital -to exclude people who don't have access to an acoustic instrument is against the spirit of the competition-

[keypeg]

I didn't see this before.

There should be some standard like no digital piano recordings because in all honesty they really suck bad.

One of the main purposes behind this was to encourage participation.  The competition aspect is almost secondary, just a fun thing to add some spice.  If digital recordings were outlawed, then those of us who do not have acoustic pianos would be prohibited from participating.  So what if that will make us sound "worse".  Isn't the point to use what you have to the best of your ability?  You can say the same thing about training, and I'd say that lack of training is a much bigger factor than a good instrument.  

Turning this around - If this competition was meant for professionals, why is it posted in the student forum?  How many of us have that kind of equipment?

[ajspiano]

"Why the hell did he switch to classic music?"

Costanza! Have you heard classical music?!?!

And now she feels entitled to perform Bach with her fingernails lacquered in black...

Is there any other way?

And four minutes of my life I'll never get back! 

Was the falsetto you?

I warned you, - and no..  I didn't do any vocals on that one.. I'm responsible for the drums and about 75% of the guitar (nearly all the acoustic stuff).

I just cannot imagine that someone would not desperately want that CD...

I don't see you putting up your name to stomach the tchaikovsky..?!

wow, aj! Interesting and makes me thing of tenacious D

 In high school we did lamb of god and evergreen terrace covers at battle of the bands. Yeah, that's right, I was the chick lead guitarist(and vocalist once...)  o_O 

Oh this guy is the bomb diggity

one of the tracks is actually a little reminiscent of "tribute" in lyrical content despite not being inspired by it..  I very much enjoyed that video too by the way.

O....M....G....Now I might have to make the time to compete.

I feel so gratified. This may mark the end of my early life crisis..

..................

Lostinidlewonder -

It would be fantastic to have to adjudicate..  I agree with most of your comments, however as has been mentioned, there are certain difficulties in that we don't know each others background and I really had no idea what the level of interest would be..

The idea was also to create a situation where many people would have reason to pursue the same or similar works and discuss the learning process and each others performances. The audition room is good but I wanted to see 10+ people whom have all learnt the piece recently commenting and sharing ideas..  and also sharing their performances, not just their comments on someone elses...  talking about whose performance is better and why, what musical differences are there.. how can they bring those elements into their own playing..  how do you even separate similar performances? This (hopefully) forces the less experienced to to learn to pay attention to finer details.. and the more experienced to do it rather than be lazy.

Making it competitive sparks interest..  winning this this isn't really a big deal, and losing isn't going to make anyone feel like a failure.. but there is a motivation there.. for everyone to get it done by a set time and talk about it.

I think it would be cool to have different difficulty level categories, more repertoire choice etc.  perhaps acoustic pianos only if there was something more formal and a bigger prize at stake.. but it will have to come later.. if the level of interest on the forum can support it.

As lloyd said, this is largely a test run.. so no exclusions.. we're just seeing how it goes.

If you are will to be a judge thats awesome, there will definately be no more than 15. Its not a loose limit.. thats it. Any more than 15 and those people will have to wait till next time.. this is for the exact reason you said.. I can't imagine anyone actually listening to 50 runs of the same thing and producing a fair judgment..  certainly not on a web forum and without payment at least

[j_menz]

I was hoping to borrow AJs little gem for my performance:

i own one of these..

Frankly, as long as it's you playing, anything is in.  How that will affect the reception is something you might consider, but the aim of this is not to force people to invest in new pianos, recording studios, sound engineers etc.

Charming as the prize is, I mean, really!

[ajspiano]

I was hoping to borrow AJs little gem for my performance:

Unfortunately it presents certain difficulties with sharps and flats..

Consequently, you may receive a prize for effort if you produce anything near the score on a like instrument..

Frankly, as long as it's you playing, anything is in.  How that will affect the reception is something you might consider, but the aim of this is not to force people to invest in new pianos, recording studios, sound engineers etc.

^this, - I do actually have some lovely recording gear (protools/high end microphones etc.).. but its just not required..  The quality might not be as good but I've never found my iPhone to be insufficient as far as demonstrating that I can play the piano with at least a small amount of finesse.

[outin]

I don't see you putting up your name to stomach the tchaikovsky..?!

The battle in my head was fierce, but since you seem to have quite a few, I can wait for the next time 

[costicina]

The idea was also to create a situation where many people would have reason to pursue the same or similar works and discuss the learning process and each others performances. The audition room is good but I wanted to see 10+ people whom have all learnt the piece recently commenting and sharing ideas..  and also sharing their performances, not just their comments on someone elses...  talking about whose performance is better and why, what musical differences are there.. how can they bring those elements into their own playing..  how do you even separate similar performances. This (hopefully) forces the less experienced to to learn to pay attention to finer details.. and the more experienced to do it rather than be lazy.

That's exactly why I decided Costanza (and me as her coach) had to parecipate....

[ajspiano]

I only have 1 question, by "Round 1" do you mean that there will be more rounds or just Round 1 because it's the first competition?

First competition.

[j_menz]

Ooops. 

[ajspiano]

Ooops. 

haha..  i was a touch confused.

[black_keys]

Hi aj put me in !

[thesuineg]

May I please be a judge.
please please please?
please please?

[ajspiano]

Hi aj put me in !

I've added your name..

and with that, we have 15 entrants! 

May I please be a judge.
please please please?
please please?

Maybe, but I don't really know you..

Voting will be open to the entire forum so in that sense, absolutely you can be a judge..   however if you meant judge as in give people scores and ranks and adjudicator type comments then I'm a little unsure. I have no idea what your background is or whether you have enough experience to do such a thing fairly. Lostinidlewonder has offered to do this already, and I know that he (she?) is an experienced teacher and has past experience adjudicating actual in person competitions..

lostinidlewonder is also a senior forum member with over 3000 posts..   you have a limited number of posts and have only been here a week..   not personal, just none of us know anything about you at this stage.

[vsrinivasa]

When is the voting for best performance going to open? I'm really looking forward to it!

[j_menz]

Maybe, but I don't really know you..

The following is an example of thesuineg's "judgment:

Very intelligent playing. I only listened to the first 20 seconds before i had to leave, but i can tell you now that there isn't much to say. Of course I'm sure you'd rather have a different piano haha, but there is a nice clear tone that reminds me of zimerman. On the other hand I hate that guy, so you might not take it as a compliment.
Oh right play play the slower parts faster and the faster parts slower.
And the beginning measure should give the idea of a opening flower, if you've ever seen those nature videos with sped up time

Emphasis mine.

FWIW, I vote "no".

[ajspiano]

When is the voting for best performance going to open? I'm really looking forward to it!

Not for a while..  details are outlined in the original post for this thread.

The following is an example of thesuineg's "judgment:

FWIW, I vote "no".

Oh my.

..

this is why I wasn't in a hurry to say yes.

[chopin2015]

haha, j_menz makes me smile

[ajspiano]

haha, j_menz makes me smile

Me too! - He was kind enough not to mention that the piece in question was a chopin ballade..

20 seconds is generally enough to know that there isn't much to say right?

[j_menz]

Me too! - He was kind enough not to mention that the piece in question was a chopin ballade..

20 seconds is generally enough to know that there isn't much to say right?

Listen to the first 20 seconds of Michelangeli play it - you'll know "wow" is all you're going to sensibly come up with.

What annoyed me was that s/he said there wasn't much to say and then went on to say it.

[chopin2015]

Me too! - He was kind enough not to mention that the piece in question was a chopin ballade..

20 seconds is generally enough to know that there isn't much to say right?

sometimes I listen to the whole thing regardless, you can learn what you don't like from some performances, as well.  Also, sometimes I don't listen at all if I know the piece, I fail to care about other people's performances until I figure out the one that is my favorite. I am being sentimental, though.

[ajspiano]

What annoyed me was that s/he said there wasn't much to say and then went on to say it.

I found it odd that the short paragraph that came out of 20 seconds did not indicate that their may have been an essay lurking in the entire work.

Listen to the first 20 seconds of Michelangeli play it - you'll know "wow" is all you're going to sensibly come up with.

Is it not possible then that the listener may go on to produce pages of drivel in an attempt to express what "wow" is and how it is achieved by the performer?