Two different Hanon exercises simultaneous. Is that a good idea?

[musicioso]

Hallo guys,

I hope i am not annoying with all this questions i ask.

So i have been doing the first 10 Hanon exercises for a couple of days, and now i thought of doing two different exercises simultaneous. For example exercise no. 1 with left hand en no. 2 with right hand.

I think thats even better because this way you also train independence a little bit. What do you think?

Any advise/suggestion is most welcome.

ps: please dont tell me Hanon is useless, because i do not spend to much time on it, and for my kind of improvisations it quit good to do them. And also i am not at advanced level, so i can not do exercises that are harder, not yet

[eric0773]

Hello,

First message on this board (although I have been reading it a lot, some contributions have been very useful to me) - early intermediate here.

I think that Hanon exercises should focus on mastering the sound you produce when hitting the keys, and on nothing else. Practicing two exercises at the same time too early may distract you from that goal.

The challenge with Hanon is to make those boring patterns sound as clear and as musical as possible. Before attempting to practice two exercises at the same time, I would therefore practice:

- Changing the "focus note" (i.e. loud-sounding note) in the pattern. Obviously the initial "focus" should be on the first and fifth notes. Having this mastered already makes Hanon much more pleasant to hear.
- Playing stacatto.
- Playing pp.
- Playing p.
- Playing f.
- Playing ff.
- Combining and interverting the above in a single series.

Only after I obtain the perfect touch in each of the above at a good speed (which is not the case right now) will I consider:

- Moving away from C major.
- Practicing the exercises in thirds/sixths/etc.
- Practicing two exercises at the same time.
- Practicing two scales at the same time.

What has worked well for me is to directly start with the metronome set on 108 (the recommended speed in the book), and to play notes in groups : 4+1, 8+1, 16+1, octave, and then full series on several octaves. By fragmenting the series this way, you will identify clearly the points of improvements for the group of notes you just played. Sometimes it will take time before being able to play perfectly and with relaxed hands even the 16+1 pattern.

(When I started Hanon, I used to do full series at a tempo of 80, then 90, then 100, 110, etc. This was a mistake, since it did not allow me to correct the weaknesses in my playing. My mistakes were only played faster. Fragmenting the series at speed is the way to go.)

Only when you have a full series mastered (with musicality) can you then (1) add the first set of variations and (2) start increasing the speed: 115, 120, 125, etc. The goal is always to make the patterns sound as interesting and precise as possible, while staying in rhythm. Someone who can make Hanon sound musical can pretty much make anything sound musical.

These are my teacher's recommendations, and they have worked fairly well with me. Also, as you note, one should not practice Hanon too much - maybe not more than 10mn in a 60mn practice session.

At my level (early intermediate), if I want to practice "brain coordination" (hands doing two different things at the same time) while keeping an emphasis on accuracy and lightness of touch, Bach inventions are the way to go.

Once again, this is just a point of view.

[musicioso]

WOOOW!!

Very useful advise/suggestions. Thank you so much eric0773, i really appreciate it.

[j_menz]

I think that Hanon exercises should focus on mastering the sound you produce when hitting the keys, and on nothing else. Practicing two exercises at the same time too early may distract you from that goal.

The challenge with Hanon is to make those boring patterns sound as clear and as musical as possible. Before attempting to practice two exercises at the same time, I would therefore practice:

I disagree. You cannot make musical something which simply isn't. Hanon may have some use in developing speed and dexterity (though I think that can be done in more pleasant ways), but is completely useless to developing any musical sense.

To that end, musicoso should feel free to throw 2 (or more) together in whatever manner he likes. It's probably going to sound horrible, but one does not play Hanon for nice music. Hell, it may even be an improvement.

Of course, the Bach inventions would do a better job and be much less traumatic on the ears.

[musicioso]

I disagree. You cannot make musical something which simply isn't. Hanon may have some use in developing speed and dexterity (though I think that can be done in more pleasant ways), but is completely useless to developing any musical sense.

To that end, musicoso should feel free to throw 2 (or more) together in whatever manner he likes. It's probably going to sound horrible, but one does not play Hanon for nice music. Hell, it may even be an improvement.

Of course, the Bach inventions would do a better job and be much less traumatic on the ears.

Thank you for your reply.

Bach inventions? Which is the easiest one, and how easy is it actually, far beyond this Hanon exercises?

[ajspiano]

Bach inventions? Which is the easiest one, and how easy is it actually, far beyond this Hanon exercises?

No. 1

not that hard to do a shabby job of..  significantly harder to do well.

[eric0773]

I disagree. You cannot make musical something which simply isn't. Hanon may have some use in developing speed and dexterity (though I think that can be done in more pleasant ways), but is completely useless to developing any musical sense.

Hello j_menz,

I have often read this about Czerny studies as well (boring, non-musical, etc). The thing is that making them sound good is extremely difficult. See comparison between this guy (and most other videos on YouTube), and this guy. None of these two makes mistakes, but only the second one is interesting to listen to (not only in terms of speed, but also nuances, etc).

Although the patterns are much simpler, Hanon can be played in same spirit. For an early intermediate student like me, it also has the benefit of making me hit many notes ;-)

[ajspiano]

Eric, while you are right - in that it is possible to put more nuance into to hanon/czerny than some others may do - I think you will find that what j_menz means is that it really doesn't matter how much you do with hanon, the notes themselves are simply not musical..  So whatever you do, it's still a mechanical version where you just go through certain technical motions. You are in no way practicing "music" - meaning an emotion expressed through sound.. Because there is no emotion in hanon to express.

The argument is always that if you know your repertoire well enough there is something that will replace any benefit you find in hanon and also be able to end up as beautiful music worth performing.

[geom]

I am playing the whole hanon every day and my technique is increasing very fast..but it does not help you musically...a good way of is to play the exercises of hanon on staccato, triplets ,  4 notes forte 4 notes piano etc