You feel salty!!!

[rachmaninoff_forever]

I was listening to Ravel's Kaddish the other day, and I was like, 'WOAH!  Dude I feel sooo salty!'.  Definitely one of the saltiest things I've heard of.  

So I did some research and apparently Kaddish is a Jewish mourning song?  So I was wondering if you guys could suggest some other pieces that exhibit extra saltyness.  And it has to be from the same genre as whatever Kaddish is in.  You can throw a little romantic and impressionism in there.

Caballe does a really good one.

[redbaron]

Are you American by any chance?

[rachmaninoff_forever]

Are you American by any chance?

If you have something to say about me being American, I don't wanna hear it. 

[perprocrastinate]

If you have something to say about me being American, I don't wanna hear it. 

Yeah, because we Americans would probably be too stupid to pay attention to one thing for more than five seconds.

[faulty_damper]

Look!  We just turned on the Statue of Liberty.  That's cool that we made it to put in the middle of the ocean.  WOW!  We are Awesome!

[chopin2015]

OMG anything jewish sounding, I would like, as well. Super AWESOME!!

[j_menz]

I still am not sure what salty means. 

Are you looking for something to play or something to listen to?  Does it have to be based on the kaddish (if so, there's a list of works on wikipedia under kaddish), or just about mourning? Does it have to have a jewish element?

Even if they don't exactly fit your needs, well worth listening to in this general area are Britten's War Requiem, Shostakovich's Symphony No 13, Gorecki's Symphony of Sorrowful Songs and Mahler's Kindertotenlieder.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

I still am not sure what salty means. 

Are you looking for something to play or something to listen to?  Does it have to be based on the kaddish (if so, there's a list of works on wikipedia under kaddish), or just about mourning? Does it have to have a jewish element?

It doesn't matter whether or not I can pay it. 

Erm...  Everything you mentioned is what I want.

BY THE WAY...  I found something that's Even harder than Bach what the heck?!?!?!

[j_menz]

BY THE WAY...  I found something that's Even harder than Bach what the heck?!?!?!

A Liszt/Busoni/Tausig/Reger/Wilde etc transcription of Bach, perhaps?  Otherwise, do tell...

[rachmaninoff_forever]

A Liszt/Busoni/Tausig/Reger/Wilde etc transcription of Bach, perhaps?  Otherwise, do tell...

Music from 'The Wiz'!!!

It's sooooo freking hard!!!

Home specifically.

[j_menz]

Music from 'The Wiz'!!!

It's sooooo freking hard!!!

Home specifically.

Is it really, or are you just not familiar with playing music of this type? It takes a bit of getting used to, although some arrangements are inherently challenging.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

Is it really, or are you just not familiar with playing music of this type?

I don't freaking know! 

That Gorekik symphony was really good by the way.

[j_menz]

I don't freaking know! 

Have you played any "popular" music before, or any Gershwin, or anything from the "American Songbook"?  It requires a few adjustments to how you think before you can make anything good out of it off the page.

That Gorekik symphony was really good by the way.

Gorecki.

It is good, isn't it. Don't take it as representative of most of his earlier work, though. He was a card carrying atonal serialist for much of his career. Though I understand you actually like some of that.

[clavile]

Yeah, because we Americans would probably be too stupid to pay attention to one thing for more than five seconds.

-facepalm-

That made me laugh

[redbaron]

We're still no closer to knowing what salty actually means...

[49410enrique]

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=salty


*flies away....

[j_menz]

*flies away....

Mental image:

[rachmaninoff_forever]

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=salty


*flies away....

Wel they also forgot to include sad.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

Have you played any "popular" music before, or any Gershwin, or anything from the "American Songbook"?  It requires a few adjustments to how you think before you can make anything good out of it off the page.

Gorecki.

It is good, isn't it. Don't take it as representative of most of his earlier work, though. He was a card carrying atonal serialist for much of his career. Though I understand you actually like some of that.

I've played popular music before.  But this is my first time reading music instead of playing by ear.

EDIT:

With the exception of the lady gaga fugue.



Yeah, I really like atonal.

This is what I was talking about!

[j_menz]

I've played popular music before.  But this is my first time reading music instead of playing by ear.

It takes a bit of mental adjustment. Not sure exactly how it varies from classical, but there is quite a difference which will take a bit of practice to get the hang of. Rhythm is approached differently, and what you can do at various times is different also. Try treating the score more as a guide to playing it by ear than like you would treat a classical score.

Yeah, I really like atonal.

It's an attraction which has so far largely escaped me.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

It's an attraction which has so far largely escaped me.

Is he really atonal or is he just not in a key?

[j_menz]

Is he really atonal or is he just not in a key?

Thanks for posting the link. It's really beautiful.

Not being in a key is, I suppose, being atonal. In this case, he appears to be following certain practices of Yiddish music, so there may in fact be a tonal centre in there somewhere, or maybe not.

On reflection, it's not atonal music per se I don't get, it's the vast bulk of serialist music; a different (but often overlapping) category. And not even all of that.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

Thanks for posting the link. It's really beautiful.

Not being in a key is, I suppose, being atonal. In this case, he appears to be following certain practices of Yiddish music, so there may in fact be a tonal centre in there somewhere, or maybe not.

On reflection, it's not atonal music per se I don't get, it's the vast bulk of serialist music; a different (but often overlapping) category. And not even all of that.

Are we talking about Gorecki or Ravel?

Cause I was talking about Gorecki.

I disagree when you said that not being in a key is atonal.  Because Scriabins later sonatas aren't atonal, but they're not in a key either.  Well maybe not in the traditional a-g, but still...

[j_menz]

Are we talking about Gorecki or Ravel?

Cause I was talking about Gorecki.

I was talking about Ravel. The Symphony of Sorrowful Songs is I think atonal, but not serial.

I disagree when you said that not being in a key is atonal.  Because Scriabins later sonatas aren't atonal, but they're not in a key either.  Well maybe not in the traditional a-g, but still...

I think late Scriabin is categorised as atonal. It's not serial, though, and given his synaesthesia I believe he had his own theoretical/aesthetic framework to work in.

Most serial works are atonal (there are exceptions), but not all atonal works are serial. Quite a lot are, but by no means all. 

[rachmaninoff_forever]

I think late Scriabin is categorised as atonal. It's not serial, though, and given his synaesthesia I believe he had his own theoretical/aesthetic framework to work in.

If you can sing a note and it still sounds coherent throughout the piece, then it's tonal.  Though it may not always be in the traditional 24 keys.

There's no way you can find a tonal center there

You can find tonal centers through pretty much most of the piece.  Sure it changes a bit, but that's like the same thing as changing key signatures.

[j_menz]

Hmmm. Been trying to find a definition of "atonal". Surprisingly, have drawn something of a blank. Even Schoenberg didn't like or accept the term.

[49410enrique]

Hmmm. Been trying to find a definition of "atonal". Surprisingly, have drawn something of a blank. Even Schoenberg didn't like or accept the term.

it is a big vauge almost useless word. i try to think of it as 'alternate tonality' or maybe even modified polytonality perhaps (i.e. it is not so much 'atonal' i.e without tone? see how silly that is?, but rather, in many cases such as with serialism, it is that all tones are elevated in their importance, the center-tonal center we like to call it right?-is a moving target, each one is critical and just as important no matter how short it is in time or with how many other tones it comes in on, i.e tonal clusters, the sound combinatino of them as a whole then becomes an important resonant center,).

as for Scriabin foray into alternate tonality, i.e building on his 'mystic chord', etc. i think it can help to remember how there is also lots of symbolism in his music, i think sometimes we lose the meaning of his message if we fail to associate an alternate meaning to the sound, it is hardly ever sound for the sake of sound.

this is a nice summary of it for folks not super familiar with it, and it talks about his colored keyboard (he associated certain colors with certain keys and i think this began to lay the foundation for that modified organ that would display colors instead of make sounds....
https://www.lumiatra.com/Scriabin.html)


*off i go, up up and away!.....

[j_menz]

I sometimes feel that the theoretical foundations of a lot of 20th century "classical" music  are either so dictatorially prescriptive (a la Scoenberg and12 tone serialism) or so loose as to be hardly "theory" at all.

*off i go, up up and away!.....

[49410enrique]

I sometimes feel that the theoretical foundations of a lot of 20th century "classical" music  are either so dictatorially prescriptive (a la Scoenberg and12 tone serialism) or so loose as to be hardly "theory" at all.

good point!

*damn it i just got this painted!