ABRSM Jazz syllabus and other recomendations

[green]

Who has used the ABRSM jazz syllabus with students and what is your opinion of it? How do you teach it? Did you find the Charles Beale teaching supplement useful?

Looking for alternatives as well, there seems to be so many books but what is really good/useful?

I have some adult beginner students interested in learning jazz, and while I have advised them that even grade 1 ABRSM jazz is not for beginners, it will take about 3-6 months (more realistically probably up to a year) to get up to a solid grade 1 level. And certainly with the jazz I for see the hand independence to be even more of an issue as you really cant fake that, its two 'minds' doing there own thing, one more or less in rhythm, the left, the other sliding around over that pulse.

The ABRSM has the Cd's, with bass and drum tracks in addition to the piano realizations of the pieces, which I'm guessing will be useful, having someone else holding down the pulse while the student can listen and 'feel' the harmonic changes while they noodle over that.

Any other play along Cd's recommended that you have used? Or simple left hand chord progressions to use for blues scales and modes?

How do you introduce modes and blues scales? How do you start a beginner on jazz for your lessons? One student likes the Hank Jones/Charlie Haden Cd, and recommendations for good gospel/spiritual jazz tunes?

Thanks

[green]

Bought one of the hal leonard Jazz play along series, Blues, great CD, wonderful haveing a bass/piano/sax/drums to play along with, makes ones own rather boring blues scale noodling sound great, also i feel myself lock into the harmonic context, hearing chord changes, and a very alive feeling awakens when playing along, quite surprised how good it felt! Anyone else try this or other play along series?

Wondering now about how to voice chords, when to use modal scales, and generally how does one 'progress' through, or teach, someone what to do here? Give them a blues scale for a start, can do alot with that, chords and simple chord changes, perhaps modes that would follow the chord changes...but then what next? Thanks!

[green]

Just learned from a book on blues improv today that the 6th degree of every key (or the relative minor I guess) yields a complimentary blues scale that can be used in addition to the main key. Well, I had no idea even after all these years of playing the blues...

Does anyone else normally find all these books on jazz improv to be next to useless? I always browse through them in hopes but end up discarding them as all theory I already know. So I'm wondering if it doesn't come down to a few basic principles of what, when, and how, to use particular chords and scales. For a more advanced player I find the introductory theory of most jazz books irritating, I really am looking for something that just cuts straight to the chase, not 300 pages of basics...

But these Hal Leonard play along Cds with fake book lead sheets are really quite good, as all my noodling suddenly makes sense in the context of a good rhythm section. I can comp the chord symbols in a closed position, looking to figure out how to open the chords up, which will take some work. Then knowing what modes, scales, can be messed around with...any help here would be appreciated!

[dcstudio]

might I suggest "the Jazz Language" by Dan Haerle.  I studied with him when I was at UNT many years ago.  I was just another highly trained classical pianist who was trying to figure out how to play jazz...he took an interest in helping me.  My best advice is don't think...do--when it comes to playing blues/jazz.  I am very comfortable with jazz improv--however, I can honestly say that I do not think hmmm...maybe I will play the 4th mode of C harmonic minor scale over this progression.  It just happens... 

if I may quote the great Bill Evans:
"jazz is not an intellectual process, we use our intellect to understand it...but it takes years and years of practice to forget all that stuff and just play."

[green]

Discovering heaps of material on utube, this is a good introfuctory site: https://www.earlmacdonald.com/jazz-education.html

Rootless voicings was perhaps the thing I found most useful...also when jazz books say ' ok now practice this in all 12 keys, i just moan and say no way, but i just realized that that means put it through the cycle of 5/4ths...hmm much easier to think of it in that way.

Suggestions for structured progressive lessons for intermediate to advanced would be appreciated, just wading through material at the moment. Will check out the Jazz Language" by Dan Haerle, thanks!

[ajspiano]

I started on this journey with  "the jazz piano book" by mark levine. It was recommended to me by a teacher as "the jazz pianists bible" ..and it sufficed as such for a fairly extended period.

[ajspiano]

Suggestions for structured progressive lessons for intermediate to advanced would be appreciated, just wading through material at the moment.

..are you looking for something for yourself or something to do with students? ..actually even within the student category alone two people who may consider themselves to be that level could be worlds apart when it comes to the theoretical foundation required to start explaining something about improv in a way more complex than just "let make some noise"

Sometimes one with a classical background at a relatively advanced level will say they know their scales.. but actually all they know is how to play ionian mode similar motion in 12 keys.. which isnt even close to the beginning of knowing scales/keys in a way relevant to quality improv.

[dcstudio]

..are you looking for something for yourself or something to do with students? ..actually even within the student category alone two people who may consider themselves to be that level could be worlds apart when it comes to the theoretical foundation required to start explaining something about improv in a way more complex than just "let make some noise"

Sometimes one with a classical background at a relatively advanced level will say they know their scales.. but actually all they know is how to play ionian mode similar motion in 12 keys.. which isnt even close to the beginning of knowing scales/keys in a way relevant to quality improv.

ain't it the truth!   very well said...   lol

[green]

for myself, advanced learner, and for my students who are beginners. My background is classical, but i improvise jazz without any real knowledge of what i am doing. I have adult students who want to improv but adult learners always want to play 'jazz', so I am looking into how to present that for someone at about a grade one ABRSM level. One adult student is very keen and want to do the ABRSM jazz series, I will get hold of the Charles Beale book, but just trying to figure out for myself how to begin improvising building on the skills I already have. I'm impatient with most jazz books I have seen as I want to cut straight to the chase, what are the elements, practical and theoretical, of putting together, for example, a jazz/blues standard. Something which sound contemporary and is not just closed left hand chords with the head and some blues scale noodling.

[ajspiano]

just as a discussion point....where do you stand with the following? and how do you suppose you could simplify it (for a student) or make it tougher (for yourself - if necessary? i dont know if i'm underdoing it or over doing it for you here..?   )

rootless left hand voicings..

Dm7 - 3,5,7,9
G7 -   7,9,3,13
CM6 - 3,5,6,9

or in notes..

FACE
FABE
EGAD

run this progression and voicing through 12 keys around the cycle of 4ths.

While doing so, in the right hand screw around a bit with a pentascale - use the first 5 notes of the applicable mode.. so in C, it will be D dorian, then G mixolydian, then C ionian..  extend the scale to the full mode and patterns/arps as you get comfortable...

looks/sounds something like this..  I start the RH pretty simple and get increasingly more complex..  though obviously this is still pretty limited as far as being able to fluently improvise over an actual tune without reverting to a blues scale.

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yes thats good thanks. I tried that progression, ii-V-i, I think for myself, as will certainly be the case with a student, is maintaining a clear sense of rhythm in the LH, so perhaps either with a metronome or backing track would be useful. With rootless voicings a bassline backing track with drums would be invaluable, so much more a sense of satisfaction in playing. A backing track which took you through all 12 keys would be much more motivating...also students would probably find then that playing wrong notes or alternatives can sound just as good, if not better

BTW of all the play alongs I've tried, second to Hal Leonards jazz series, I would say this is really superb, but not easy, sort of oscar peterson style?, has the whole RH/LH arrangements written out, so you get all rootless voicing and great RH improv's in a very contemporary sounding context: Jazz Piano Play Along: You Plus a Jazz Ensemble (Book & 2 CDs) (Steinway Library of Piano Music) by Noreen Grey Lienhard (2 Jan 2006)

[green]

ii-V-i is definately going to be one of the lesson topics, but how would you present it? Personally an extracted technique like ii-V-i practice has to be brought into practice with an actual piece, so while I know this is supposed to be the most common chord progression in jazz, what would be a few good student beginner pieces that could be the goal of practicing the ii-V-i progression? Probably using lead sheets would be good as students need to get use to relating progressions like this, that they have practiced, to an actual piece.

Also at what point do you introduce the  ii-V-i progression? What is your general plan when teaching jazz and how does this fit into it?

I have begun thinking also how I would advertise for teaching jazz. Probably as 3 levels, beginner, intermediate, advanced, with a specific break down of teachniques and methods that would be covered with students. At the moment I am somewhat daunted by the amount of material, teaching material, books, Cd's, method books available. How would you go about narrowing things down? Or rather cutting down to the essentials, so that you can build students up with a solid foundation from which to explore a broader range of stylistic choices?

At all levels I want pieces, the goal points around which specific learning targets are organized, that sound good and would really appeal to a broad range of students from young-adult. Does anyone here do this, had success or not with trying to set up a teaching practice like this or otherwise?

[ajspiano]

You're going to have to consider individual backgrounds..   Someone who is technically more competent will manage better.

Personally I don't teach this stuff in a way that is jazz specific, its just improv/composition in general with no stylistic constraint - though we do sometimes work in a specific genre/style/form etc.

Assuming that the student has some traditional classical background, (eg. has come to me from another teacher who focused on exams) first topic of discussion is usually that a scale isn't just a linear run of notes, and that we can have a much deeper understanding of the scale and use it to build music. And this may happen in a short time or over an extended run of lessons where you'll need to incorporate tunes with each step etc. - depends on your student.

To start increasing their understanding of the scale, and their ability to play in and around it we play patterns. These are not written out in notation, they are theoretically constructed based on scale degree numbers. So i give them a number pattern, such as 1,2,3,4,5. and then say "now shift it up so it starts on the number 2 note" (which may require further explaination or a demo so they clearly understand..   so in C major, they will have played CDEFG, then DEFGA - they take this through each scale degree. It comes out a bit like a hanon exercise but instead of reading it they have to create it and know the scale properly.

Then the challenge is increased by using a more complex pattern, so something pretty pretty ballsy (at this stage, and would come much later once we'd done more keys and other things - its just to illustrate where you can go) would be like 1, 3, 5, 7, 6, 4, b3, 3, 1, 1, in swing 8ths, which would sound kind of jazzy.. shifted to the next mode it would be 2,4,6,8,7,5,b4, 4, 2, 2 - but you get them to think of the D as 1, not 2.. so they are thinking modally. You can also use straight rhythms and do something more like a bach motif, or something styled on some other composer..   so that you're demonstrating the scale's function within a variety of musical examples.

Anyway, once you've done a bit of this, with simple patterns like 1324 for example, or the same simple patterns with different rhythms you bring in 135. Putting 135 through each mode will give you all the root triads found within the working key.. add the 7th if the student can handle it.. such as

C major, CEG (B)
D minor, DFA (C)
E minor, EGB (D)
F major, FAC (E)
etc.

In this situation I start asking them to play the "pattern" as a chord. - And I start asking for transitions between modes that are not linear..  more likely just random..  so they'll end up playing something like CEG, FAC, EGB, ACE, DFA, GBD, CEG (notice this includes a 2-5-1).

To get this under control it may mean doing simple improvisations over a 2 chord progression. C major, F major, C major, F major for example..  and then another 2 chord progression..   after this you can start talking about more complex common chord progressions..   tunes that use the 3 primary chords (there are millions of those) and ii-V-I situations.

There are a bunch of tunes that frequently use 2-5-1-6 turnarounds, "I get a kick out of you" is a good example.. it just repeats this through out the verses (though you have to deal with 6 operating as a secondary dominant and being outside the base scale, not a huge problem as its extremely common and allows you to put out that this stuff (using only scale notes) isn't rules its just a guide).

The tune "autumn leaves" is pretty much just awesome for the whole idea because it runs through the entire key in a 4ths progression (251 is a fragment of this). Means you practice all chords, all modes, and the melody itself lends it self to minor improvisational alterations..  the progression in the tune runs like this

Am, D7, G, C, F# half dim, B7, Em.

You can then play things like what I did over the 2-5-1 in the video (simple pentascale improv over each chord/mode) as a solo section between repetitions of the head. Where you have a 6 chord that would have in theory been a m7, but is a dom7 in the tune, a good mode for improv is the phyrgian dominant, based on the 5th degree of the harmonic minor. So where its B7 (such as in autumn leaves) you play the 5th mode of E harmonic minor.

As i said earlier I don't confine myself to jazz..  you can do things like an alberti figure in the LH and very scale like passages in the RH, that uses 1 4 5 progressions and you end up sounding like a clementi sonatina. You can encourage students to observe figurations found in their fully notated scores, be they jazz or otherwise..  and imitate the rhythms or chord progressions now that they can identify them.. look at different transitions between chords.. how other composers use different inversions of chords or voicings to make the same set of notes more interesting.

..you can ofcours prepare lessons like that..  say, find 5 sonatinas in the same key that have a passage with an alberti line. Draw on harmonic elements from all of them.. improvise/compose your own passage.

the rootless jazz LH voicings usually start out as 3rd and 7th only. - you would get to practicing 2-5-1s like this, as LH voicings plus improv, or RH voicings plus walking bass etc. AND as LH voicings of a tune, plus the melody, working from a lead sheet...  then you add the 5,9, 6, 13 degrees to the chords, then things like b9s and 13s..  inversions of the voicings..  tritone substitutions..  this is months and months of practice and many tunes though to learn properly and in all keys.

etc, etc ramble ramble..  hope that helps in some way.

..I haven't really touched on arranging a standard tune.. hmm.. whole other topic, save for another post.

[green]

Thanks that sounds like a good way to get started! BTW I discovered what appears to be an excellent jazz improv play along series: Jamey Aebersold Jazz series, looks also like Hal Leonard either bought the rights to the series or stole his idea, because his series is virtually the same structure but looks much more detailed.

Also, I got a program called 'amazing slow downer' which takes any recording mp3 you have, and slows it down without changing the pitch, very useful for playing along at a slower tempo!

I'm practicing comping at the moment, feeling the groove and building nice voice leading, I think with a good sense of syncopation and harmonic change, with a clear understanding of rootless chord voicings and little riffs to connect them together, then the melodic lines will begin to flow of their own accord from that...

Listening to Stan Getz and Sonny Rollins today, wow blew me away...

Thanks again for your suggestions

[ajspiano]

BTW I discovered what appears to be an excellent jazz improv play along series: Jamey Aebersold Jazz series,

haha I neglected to mention that..   its a massive library..  over 100 volumes or something.. 

you may find the attached useful..