UPDATE [VIDEO HD]-Re-record 01/08/13-Chopin Etude Style-Kaze no Tani no Nausicaa

[49410enrique]

EDIT/UPDATE 01/2013
I have to move on and cannot keep this in rotation (for now). Recorded a run through for my records (practice and performance viddy archive)

this is shot with better quality audio and video (I bumped resolution to 720p so you can increase the video quality if you watch it in youtube.)
my updated remarks and other relevant info are in the video info box on the video home landing page as well.

THANKS FOR THE FEEDBACK EVERYONE. I'll def come back to this sometime in the future and follow through on all that was discussed to an even further extent.
__________________________________________________________________
old post

https://soundcloud.com/scriabinoff/hauromi-hosono-arr-hiroshi

Composed: Hauromi Hosono (Arranged. Hiroshi Otakahara)
WIP [work in progress] practice, from Chopin de Ghibli


so I have not had time in lessons to really cover any of this w/ my teacher as we have spent our time on my Bach solo that I'm due to perform next week. I have had a single short lesson on this several months ago and have not been able to really focus heavily until recently.

It's my hope to continue clean up work and if it is ready by the end of the week, I may add it to the list for the program so I can perform two pieces at the student performances next week.

Thanks for your feedback and help it has been quite a challenge navigating some interesting technical and musical challenges on my own  .
btw it is still under tempo here, im close, total play time I am shooting for is in the 3:00 or less range and this comes in maybe about 10 seconds longer than that. so i have this divided into three main sections so I think if i can shave about 4 seconds or so per section off, then push to play it even faster in practice, the performance tempo should settle in where I want it (i always perform 'slower than my max tempo' so i push for a personal standard faster than what i will actually play it in public)

apologies for the external link, i used a different method to record to day(didn't have my camera so my recorder records in wma format and the forum does not support this file type for upload but i like the microphone this little olympus gadget has for an inexpensive internal condenser mic and for the compression of the file it defaults to)

[costicina]

Remarkable progresses compard to your last attempt! Speed and fluency are almost conquered, accuracy too has dramatically improved. I liked especially the assertive, sparkling 'incipit' and the very expressive end. Wonderful job!!!!

[starstruck5]

This Etude is just like the Chopin in the sense that is a dazzle or die piece -and you certainly dazzle!  The LH melody line is beautifully articulated and the super fast arpeggios are amazingly accurate -I think if you could manage to find some extra levels of softs and louds -it would be perfect -I know it is very very difficult at such a fast tempo -I too loved the expressive ending! Bravo.

[49410enrique]

thanks costicina and starstruck5!

i sincerely appreciate you guys humoring me and listening to this 'outside the box' piece.


it is an enjoyable piece to play (some days!), and your praise lends me confidence that I am on the right track, I do not yet know if my teacher will allow me to play it next week, no big either way, if so then great, if not,  i continue to chip away at it until it's 'just right'.

my technique, accuracy, and ability to control tension in my hand and arms at the keyboard have dramatically improved as a result of my time with this piece and i know there is still money on the table so i am excited to even keep it and keep refining and finding ways to make it 'easier to play'.

will pm you guys once i find out what i'll do with it, i still have a few days to let it settle into itself.  if i don't perform it this time, i'll just do a special recording of it at some later date and post then.

again sincere thanks for taking time to listen and for your great feedback (I am still discovering places to make it more interesting for the ear in terms of dynamic and phrase planning), and for the vote of confidence!

[j_menz]

Nicely played enrique.

If I can make one small suggestion, there are places where I can still hear what your hands are doing over what the music is doing.  Concentrate on where the musical hinge points are as much or more than where your technical hinge points are.  Just like the 10/1 it seems that there are two themes and harmonic polyfilla; in the RH, sometimes you let the odd bit of pollyfilla dominate over the tune.

[49410enrique]

Nicely played enrique.

If I can make one small suggestion, there are places where I can still hear what your hands are doing over what the music is doing.  Concentrate on where the musical hinge points are as much or more than where your technical hinge points are.  Just like the 10/1 it seems that there are two themes and harmonic polyfilla; in the RH, sometimes you let the odd bit of pollyfilla dominate over the tune.

this is fantastic feedback! thank you for this, i'll definately work to address this, i am strongly considering just shelving it and continuing to work at it as there is much more i think i'd like to do with it, but if my teacher not only just 'okays' it but actually encourages a performance of it, i'll give it a whirl....still will work to tie up loose ends and make it less 'notey' in spots.

i appreciate your taking time to listen, the compliment, and the suggestion(s)!

[rachfan]

Hi enrique,

Very impressive playing!  I enjoyed hearing this music of Hosono in the style of Chopin.  The only suggestion I would have would be to search through the music for dynamic markings that you might not yet be emphasizing.  Doing so might provide more coloring and shading in your performance.  Again, very well played.  You show a fine technique here in the service of the music.

Where did you place your recorder relative to the piano?  I'm thinking that it might have been better positioned.

David

[49410enrique]

Hi enrique,

Very impressive playing!  I enjoyed hearing this music of Hosono in the style of Chopin.  The only suggestion I would have would be to search through the music for dynamic markings that you might not yet be emphasizing.  Doing so might provide more coloring and shading in your performance.  Again, very well played.  You show a fine technique here in the service of the music.

Where did you place your recorder relative to the piano?  I'm thinking that it might have been better positioned.

David

Hi David, "A thousand 'thank you's " for your compliments and critique, yours (along with everybody else's feedback) has been most helpful in aiding me in taking stock of where it is and where I need to go.

regarding dynamics, yes I agree with you wholeheartedly, the challenge I have found is that freedom the composer and arranger really left performer with regard to how little they specify. The link below shos images of the only 4 dynamics indications/considerations asked of me in the entire piece, so I guess I really need to plan and commit to finding places to contrast against these.

-See link:
https://www.scribd.com/doc/115752637/Dynamics?secret_password=166pxeibwrfwin1phpzm

Also, regarding the placement of the recorder, yes I am still experimenting on how to use it. I have only used the device in the past to record voice/lectures and had never attempted to capture music.  For this recording I may need to play it a bit closer to the piano, I was trying to let the sound 'open up a bit' and develop before hitting the microphone as I was not sure how sensitive the device actually  was and didn't just want it to come accross and loud AND distorted. Here I placed it center at about the 2nd row, the Bosendorfer (pictured) was center stage and the lid was fully open with the music rack down, and only a a few feet or so back from the lip/edge of the performance floor. I may try to place the recorder in front of the first row next time?
-See attached picture of peformance/lecture hall.
you'll notice they have a nicely placed microphone, i just don't have a key to the control booth and i don't know how to work the silly board even if i did...
Do you think positionally it would need to be different, i.e  on stage but in front of the piano? Under the piano? I dont have any experience with microphone placement relative to the sound source so any suggestions on this would be great.

Truth is I just need to try and use my camcorder even for sound only as I can extract a convert to mp3 from video in post, this little thing only uses an "Electret monoaural condenser" microphone where as my camera at least has a stereo sound capture and processing  capabillity. I really wish I could just save up and one of these, those little things seem like very good 'all arounders' for capturing a better than decent sound (depending on positioning and environment acoustics and source), and a nice picture from what I read. I could be at least a year away from getting one of these though....


thanks again for your help and feedback, your insight(s) is/are invaluable and I know they help others as well.

[costicina]

Enrique, I have a Zoom Q3 HD, it's really a great recorder, and it's not so expensive considering its quality. I hope you get one soon.

[rachfan]

Hi enrique,

Because the piano is left on stage where the maintenance people put it (the auditorium being empty), the tail is facing the audience in the picture.  But when you made your recording, the piano might have been in some other position.  It's probably moved around depending on needs and then moved again to get it out of the way.  

Basically, you have a portable recorder with on-board stereo mics in XY configuration with the mics at a 90+ degree angle to one another.  Unlike A-B configuration where you have two standalone parallel mics pointed at the piano (probably 8 to 10 feet in front of the curve of the piano's rim for a concert grand), with XY you need to be closer in to the piano.  I would guess about 5 or 6 feet from the curve.  To fine tune it, do this: The mics are exposed in the unit, so  sight long one mic, making sure that the mic is not pointing beyond the keyboard cheeks, and when you sight along the other mic, that it isn't pointing past the tail of the piano.  In other words, using XY you don't want to "overshoot" the length of piano. The keyboard and tail are the outter limits.  If you're overshooting, move a foot or two closer to the piano.  

Ideally you'd want to elevate the recorder perhaps up 6 feet or so.  A six foot step ladder could be used whereby you could lay the unit on the top of a six foot ladder, or a lower step if more appropriate.  Even a folding chair or table could be used to gain some height. But that stage is neat and devoid of anything but the piano.  You might look behind the stage doors to the left and right wing of the stage.  If they're unlocked, have a look there to see if there might be something useful that you could momentarily borrow to gain some height for the recorder.

I would not advise placing the unit under the piano.  It's true that sound escapes not only over the rim and as reflected outward by the raised lid.  It's also true that when the soundboard is reverberating that sound drops downward from the underside of the soundboard.  But I've heard a few pianists trying the under-the-piano placement, and the results were not very good.  Placement inside of the piano is best for jazz and pops, but not classical music--there is too much of a percussive sound quality along with other mechanical sounds present inside the piano.  You don't want hammer-on-string sound in the making. Rather, you want a finished, blended and refined sound.  That means staying outside of the piano.

Another possibility is closing the lid and placing the recorder centered on top of the lid (either fully closed or with the front articulating part of the lid laid back on the rest of the lid).  Some surprisingly good results have come from that positioning.  It's not ideal, but it can be a workable compromise.

In an empty, "live", auditorium, placing the unit out in the seats will give you a distant, reverberating sound--far from ideal.  That's what you have now.  I hope that the suggestions above will be helpful.

The best approach to microphone placement is experimentation, experimentation and experimentation.

David

 

[49410enrique]

that is very helpful indeed. especially the need to try different things. that picture is the hall and piano but yes, it is not the way piano was positioned. i did move it to the center so it was in normal 'recital' config.
 

that tip with the closed lid sounds super interesting, i never would have considered it, it may come in handy someday.

i also appreciate your explanation of why recorder placement in the 'audience rows' is not ideal.  i think the main issue with this one however was more to do with the fact that i was limited to very inexpensive equipment (just a handheld voice recorder with a tiny intenral microphone), i was actually surprised how 'well' it picked up something given its relativey 'low quality' componentry.

i do hope to at the very least upgrade to something like a zoom (either as pictured above or even its less expensive but still well reviewed little brother the q2).

in the meantime when i use the video camera, I will attempt to utilize your suggestions for line of sight xy placing (will also do some additional reading on the matter to ensure i understood it as you meant it).

sincerest and warmest thanks, as always.

[candlelightpiano]

Very impressive performance, Enrique!  It's a nice change, too.  Love the dramatic and bold bass melody and the glorious rippling treble.  Loved it!

[danhuyle]

I like the composition and it's cleverly written. The right hand dominates over the left hand melodies for the most part.

Post another recording.

[49410enrique]

I like the composition and it's cleverly written. The right hand dominates over the left hand melodies for the most part.

Post another recording.

hey thanks for the comment, yeah like i said this will get re recorded in both better sound quality and hopefully with some of the follow through per my teacher's assignment for me on it.

but i agree and you echo what others and my teacher and myself have spoken about with regard in where we want to focus some of the attention and energy as the piece continues to take shape.

thanks again!

Very impressive performance, Enrique!  It's a nice change, too.  Love the dramatic and bold bass melody and the glorious rippling treble.  Loved it!

thank you choo! as was previously said, this was a 'take stock' 'set a bench mark' recording, still have lots of work on my own to do, my last piano lesson with my teacher (i begin w a new one next term and the focus will shift towards a jazz idom heavy repertoire, though not exclusively) we addressed some things for me to focus on as I move the work forward. but is is very nice to know even in its rough state you still pick out some glimpses of where i want it to go.
thank you for listening and commenting!

[emill]

Hello Enrique,

I had a good laugh as I was trying to comprehend what was happening until Enzo told me
it was a Chopin Etude ala Japanese !!!! Now is it??? 

I have also noticed your themes from "Japanese Anime" and I must say you have introduced some interesting variety here in PianoStreet.  There are also a number of new members who have ventured into the more popular and contemporary music.  Well as they say variety spices up life!!!

BTW .... NICE playing and control.... and many thanks!!

[49410enrique]

Hello Enrique,

I had a good laugh as I was trying to comprehend what was happening until Enzo told me
it was a Chopin Etude ala Japanese !!!! Now is it??? 

I have also noticed your themes from "Japanese Anime" and I must say you have introduced some interesting variety here in PianoStreet.  There are also a number of new members who have ventured into the more popular and contemporary music.  Well as they say variety spices up life!!!

BTW .... NICE playing and control.... and many thanks!!

emill, thank you for the compliments and kind encouragement. i am happy and got a chuckle out of Enzo's description! I try to keep a very open mind when it comes to our instrument, the music we have the privilege to play on it, and cast a 'wide net' so i don't miss any rare gems that might otherwise go unoticed either by myself as a performer, or for others as listeners.

thank you for listening and i am happy you enjoyed it. 

[49410enrique]

I have added the updated video to the top/original post.
 

[costicina]

  Much better than your  previous version, not only reagrding the the audio/video quality, but the performance too. More varied dynamics and touch make the piece still more enjoyable. Good !!!!

...And your 'mafioso' look is absolutely irresistible 

[49410enrique]

^@costicina

[candlelightpiano]

Did I ever tell you that I like men in cool hats?    That hat becomes you, Enrique!  

I listened to both the old and the new.  There's a big difference between the two and you probably don't want to hear this but I have to tell you truly that I actually like the old one better with the dizzying and dazzling ripples and the more pronounced and forceful bass.  That blew me away!  You didn't need to do much work on it. , maybe just smooth out a few rough spots. It was already spectacular!  You blow me away with your virtuosity and musicality.

And I laughed so hard about what Enzo said I nearly fell over!

[49410enrique]

Did I ever tell you that I like men in cool hats?    That hat becomes you, Enrique!  

I listened to both the old and the new.  There's a big difference between the two and you probably don't want to hear this but I have to tell you truly that I actually like the old one better with the dizzying and dazzling ripples and the more pronounced and forceful bass.  That blew me away!  You didn't need to do much work on it. , maybe just smooth out a few rough spots. It was already spectacular!  You blow me away with your virtuosity and musicality.

And I laughed so hard about what Enzo said I nearly fell over!

thanks for the kind remarks and observations. indeed there are aspects of the works i feel come out differently depending on the day/mood. and there certainly were days towards the end of december that i felt i played the work with more speed and shaping of the counter melodic lines inthe LH where they did occur, part of it here though was my playing to the strengths of my instrument, the upper registers are quite brilliant but the lower just don't have the power and resonating effect that the 7 foot bosendorfer i used for the wip  from nov has. i respond to the sound i get while im playing and will subconciously adjust my playing it somewhat so the combination of room acoustics and tonal qualities of the piano did have some play here. i know if i were able to actually focus on it as a performance work i would (and will when i revisit it in the future some day) take a different stab at it.

[rachfan]

Hi enrique,

I liked this later rendition.  You play with fine articulation and handle the arpeggios with good control and accuracy throughout.  The relaxed, flexible wrist contributes to that, as well as tone production.  Keep working on the the dynamics.

David

[ted]

Thanks for posting this intriguing piece, which you play well. It suggests the novel idea to me that it might just admit of two very different physical techniques, the classical romantic, with smooth dynamic variation as David suggests, or a more percussive approach using detached finger striking, achieving phrasal interest through accents and rhythm. It is after all a rather special piece, and in the absence of clear composer intention I'd certainly be tempted to let discretion fly out the window and experiment freely. You could even develop two or three different versions.

Talking about experiment, David is right about having to spend much time testing many positions and parameters of even the simplest recording equipment. I would never have thought that the setup below with a closed lid would have given the best results in my lounge, but indeed it does, in spades, and I tried dozens over the three days after buying the Zoom H2. It is absolutely impossible to guess in advance what will work - for me anyway. Heavy drapes and curtains cause different sounds to bare boards and large windows. So many variables.



   

[49410enrique]

Hi enrique,

I liked this later rendition.  You play with fine articulation and handle the arpeggios with good control and accuracy throughout.  The relaxed, flexible wrist contributes to that, as well as tone production.  Keep working on the the dynamics.

David

david, thank you for taking time to listen and watch. you particular compliments to my physical execution in dealing with the technical demands of the piece really made my day!

Thanks for posting this intriguing piece, which you play well. It suggests the novel idea to me that it might just admit of two very different physical techniques, the classical romantic, with smooth dynamic variation as David suggests, or a more percussive approach using detached finger striking, achieving phrasal interest through accents and rhythm. It is after all a rather special piece, and in the absence of clear composer intention I'd certainly be tempted to let discretion fly out the window and experiment freely. You could even develop two or three different versions.

Talking about experiment, David is right about having to spend much time testing many positions and parameters of even the simplest recording equipment. I would never have thought that the setup below with a closed lid would have given the best results in my lounge, but indeed it does, in spades, and I tried dozens over the three days after buying the Zoom H2. It is absolutely impossible to guess in advance what will work - for me anyway. Heavy drapes and curtains cause different sounds to bare boards and large windows. So many variables.



   

ted, what a delight it was for me to see your remarks and feedback on here!! you are correct in your assessment that the piece is very much open to more than one single 'right way' to interpret it, in fact, many of my japanese books published by yamaha, include performance remarks for each work (like a mini lesson or things to look out for or pay attention to in each one).  and the translated mini-lesson for this made it a point to specifically state how 'open' this was to interpretation. i do think my performance of it in this video was very much a response to the very loud room acoustics (no curtains or soft furniture anywhere, hard wood floors, close proximity to walls, etc.

i will definately revisit this work sometime in the future and will experiement more with it (in addition to hopefully playing it at the tempo i hear and feel it in, it is actually in my ear -and on the album recording by pianist lisa nakazono-a bit faster, by almost a full minute or so! ).

you bring up good points on 2nd-ing the notion that we must experiment with what we need to do to get the best recorded sound.  i had read and noticed that in my case with my recorder being both my video and sound capture source, that the best place for video is not neccessarily the best place for the microphones to be. i hope to upgrade to externally powered separate condenser microphones that are compatible with my pcm recorder, i think that will solve some problems at that time (hopefully not too long into the future).

you have an awesome pcm recorder. the zoom h2 is a fantastic device, i have read many great reviews on it and i recall being pretty blown away by some audio samples i came across a while back.

many thanks again for taking time to weigh in and comment and i appreciate your additional input on recording!  

[starstruck5]

You play this remarkably well -got even better as the piece progressed -maybe a bit of recording nerves at the outset?  Good dynamic range -you clearly enjoy playing this Chopin adaptation -it is a fascinating diversion! Well done for bringing it to our attention!