Would this annoy you? Does this make me a crazy helicopter parent?

[slane]

Hello Teachers,

    my daughter and I both learn piano from different teachers (hers teaches at the school) and  its almost summer break. Weeks and weeks (6) to practice the piano! But her teacher doesn't teach through the break. Mine does. So I'm thinking could my daughter learn from my teacher over the break?

  Would that offend you if you were my daughter's teacher? I'll discuss it with her of course.
  Will it be too short a time for my teacher and daughter to form a useful relationship? I think not.
  Will this discombobulate my daughter having a change in teaching style?
  I'm thinking that she should learn different repertoire with my teacher.

  I just don't like the idea of her playing the same pieces over and over for 6 weeks! Is that silly of me?

EDIT: The more I think about this the more I think its a good idea. Over the break my daughter will have to come with me to my lessons, so she may as well have one too, and as long as she's learning different repertoire there's no need to even mention it to her teacher anymore than you'd apologise to the school art teacher for holiday art activities!

-s
  

[j_menz]

Yes it makes you a crazy helicopter parent.

1. She should enjoy the break. 2. Her teacher may have goven her some extra things to do over it. 3. If she gets sick of what she's doing, now would be a great time to have at other pieces in her books (or elsewhere) and broaden her horizons; explore how piano can be for fun as well as  study/work.

Replace "piano" with "reading" or "math" and see how crazy you sound. 

[mahlermaniac]

Why not involve your daughter in the decision? How old is she and what are her goals? If she is older and has serious musical aspirations it might not be a terrible idea. If she is quite young, a break wouldn't hurt. Does she want to have lessons during the summer break or just practice on her own?

[keypeg]

No, it does not make you a helicopter parent.  A helicopter parent is someone who has ambitions for her child and lives vicariously through the child's "success" in music, micromanaging teacher and child.  You are a music student yourself so you understand what piano studies are about.  If a teacher takes off for six weeks, then the teacher has a responsibility to prepare things for the student to do during her absence so that the student doesn't slip.  Music lessons do not consist only of the day that the student attends the lesson.  They consist of the work the student does in between plus the lesson before and after that work.  Practicing is an integral part of it, and it doesn't sound like this teacher has put any thought into that.  Why not ask the teacher about this?

[nyiregyhazi]

No, it does not make you a helicopter parent.  A helicopter parent is someone who has ambitions for her child and lives vicariously through the child's "success" in music, micromanaging teacher and child.  You are a music student yourself so you understand what piano studies are about.  If a teacher takes off for six weeks, then the teacher has a responsibility to prepare things for the student to do during her absence so that the student doesn't slip.  Music lessons do not consist only of the day that the student attends the lesson.  They consist of the work the student does in between plus the lesson before and after that work.  Practicing is an integral part of it, and it doesn't sound like this teacher has put any thought into that.  Why not ask the teacher about this?

I don't think you can blame the teacher. Personally, I'm generally happy to teach students over holidays and some of my pupils from schools do occasionally come for lessons in the break. With the rest, holidays are just how it is. Beyond telling them to keep doing what we've been doing at the time of the last lesson before the break, there's really not much you can do. Although I'm prepared and even happy to teach SOME students myself, I don't think you can blame a teacher who may have a much busier schedule than myself (I only work part-time) for wanting a break- and ultimately there's relatively little that a teacher can really do for the six weeks other than ask them to keep going with things that have already been started. Any six week schedule will ultimately become meaningless on anything other than paper- without lessons for guidance and to check what needs the attention at the time. If good practise habits are in place, existing work can be continued. If not, nothing the teacher does will suddenly create them for the next 6 weeks or prepare for certainty that new things will be done correctly. However, the teacher certainly wouldn't have any right to object if you can get lessons elsewhere. I know that some of my students take lessons in the holidays and I'd only encourage that.

[keypeg]

The word "blame" was nowhere in there.  I am suggesting that the parent ask the teacher about what the child should be doing during the holidays.  I think I used the word "responsibility".  If part of the learning process involves doing things between lessons, then the teacher must consider this.  I am writing this as a teacher.

[fleetfingers]

I always took piano lessons year round, and many children do, so I don't see that as "pushing" or over-scheduling. I also think that it would be nice to have a different teacher's perspective on her playing, and your daughter might enjoy a different style temporarily.

The only thing that would worry me is the fact that it's YOUR teacher. It is not a negative "helicopter parent" thing to provide your child with a good piano education, but if you are sitting there taking notes and then bugging her about it at home, that would be over involved, imo. If the teacher talks to you, and not to your daughter, about what she needs to do, then that's not good either. Children need to be independent and learn how to work with their teachers, and then follow instructions at home, without the parents "hovering". Depending on how old she is, she may not like going to piano lessons with her mom. Ask her what she thinks.

[slane]

Thankyou everyone. An interesting mixture of responses there. I think I will wait and see what her teacher has set up for her over the holidays.

j_menz. I certainly expect my daughter to keep reading over the holidays! How awful if she were to suddenly stop! She reads because she loves it. I think that's rather an argument for, not against!
And maths too, I expect her to keep applying her maths skills too but with piano I think she will leave those skills idle without a teacher.

Anyhoo ... thanks again.

[j_menz]

j_menz. I certainly expect my daughter to keep reading over the holidays! How awful if she were to suddenly stop! She reads because she loves it. I think that's rather an argument for, not against!
And maths too, I expect her to keep applying her maths skills too but with piano I think she will leave those skills idle without a teacher.

I didn't suggest she stop playing, just that she do it for fun.  If absent the lesson impetus your daughter has no interest in playing at all, you are going to have bigger problems down the track than a few missed weeks of lessons.

[nyiregyhazi]

The word "blame" was nowhere in there.  I am suggesting that the parent ask the teacher about what the child should be doing during the holidays.  I think I used the word "responsibility".  If part of the learning process involves doing things between lessons, then the teacher must consider this.  I am writing this as a teacher.

Sorry, but it makes not the slightest difference whether you literally used the word yourself, when you wrote:

They consist of the work the student does in between plus the lesson before and after that work.  Practicing is an integral part of it, and it doesn't sound like this teacher has put any thought into that.

 

To say that there is an explicit subtext of "blame" is an understatement- whatever you personally label that sentiment as. It's quite shockingly unfair to make such a speculation about an unknown teacher, simply because he is going on a completely standard summer teaching holiday (which is essentially all we can gather for definite from the OP's description). He hasn't even had the chance either to give or not give a summer plan and you're saying it sounds like he hasn't put any thought in- based on no more direct knowledge than the fact he is taking a holiday!!! That is spectacularly unfair and the assumption is based on totally inadequate information to justify it.  Even if is so, assigning information on how and what to practise from week to week and through a six week period are totally different things. If anything, the better a teacher is at having showed students how to work week by week, the LESS he should need to talk them through some kind of pointless six week plan.
 
I appreciate that you are a teacher yourself, but what kind of things are you seriously expecting from a piano teacher? Precisely what are you claiming that a teacher has a responsibility to do- to plan out six weeks of unsupervised work? It's totally different to academic learning. A language teacher can simply assign a list of vocabulary and say to learn segments week by week without supervision. Music teaching does not function that way. If you've already worked at the student with their repertoire, you should need little more than to tell them to keep up with the principles that you have already showed them how to work at. If you're giving them brand new things, then either you have enormous trust in their talent or you've been outright reckless to leave them with what is simply self-teaching themself those things. That is, it's not reckless to be taking the holiday but reckless to be naive enough to think that a student can singlehandedly follow a useful six week programme without some feedback to keep it on a useful track- rather than a path to disaster. More often than not, such a plan will result in things being learned badly, in a way that builds deeply ingrained bad habits. All you can realistically do is ask them to stick to the path you were on in the last lesson.

That is the difference between piano and regular academic learning. The schedule must constantly change week by week according to needs that are particular to the moment for that student- or it is literally worthless. You can't plan ahead with a schedule that tells the student when they will urgently need to improve the quality of their thumb under technique, or in which week they need to remember the difference between forte and piano or in which week they need to stop forgetting F sharps. Without the feedback that makes weekly advice useful, a long term schedule is often worse than useless. A good teacher should instill the broad principles that students need. At the point of going on holiday, there is nothing useful that can be done other than a reminder that the student should keep up their work in the vein that it has already been shown to them in previous weeks.

The reality of the world is not ideal, but we can choose between worthless six week plans or we can accept both that teachers take holidays and that there's relatively little information they can give to make those six weeks optimally useful- other than that which they should be gradually instilling week by week. If the student can't be trusted to keep up what has been taught  week by week, a detailed plan will make zero different to them. That's why it's probably a good idea to keep lessons going with another teacher, if the student is keen to keep going forwards.

[j_menz]

Good grief people. You make piano playing seem such an endless lot of work. A chore!

Am I the only one here who ever plays the thing just for the sheer pleasure of doing so?  Isn't that the purpose of the work we do?  Surely six weeks off just doing that has value?

[slane]

Good grief people. You make piano playing seem such an endless lot of work. A chore!

Am I the only one here who ever plays the thing just for the sheer pleasure of doing so?  Isn't that the purpose of the work we do?  Surely six weeks off just doing that has value?

Actually, that's my ideal. My daughter has been taught to read and now she reads for pleasure (and to put off going to sleep ). She has been taught some simple maths and she applies what she learnt to say, divide up jelly beans between her friends.
If I thought she would pick up music (and we do have a fair amount at her level in the house) like she picks up books, then I would be very happy but she is still at the beginning stages of learning and really needs goals and instructions (which she wont take from me) to keep her interested. Just like in reading, you need to reach a certain proficiency before you can play for pleasure.

But she does enjoy practising and she would be at my teacher's studio anyway. And why would I think she needs a rest from piano when I would be sad if my teacher stopped for the break? Why would I have a double standard like that? Why should I think lessons are fun for me and a chore for her? Hmmm.  

So if I rephrased by question as ...
My daughter seems to enjoy her lessons and does her practice happily and seems to be interested in what she's learning and music in general so it seems a pity to have to have 6 weeks off over summer. Meanwhile my teacher, who I really enjoy learning from, teaches over the summer, so why don't I treat my daughter to some lessons from him, since she'll have to come to my lessons anyway?

What's the answer now?

[j_menz]

What's the answer now?

Fair points. Why not ask your daughter what she would like to do?

[slane]

Well if I asked her outright she's probably say "No" because she baulks at the unknown.
So I said "I think you should ...." and she said "Why?"
To which I answered "Because it will be a pity to stop learning when you're enjoying piano. Because you'll have to come to my lessons anyway, because it will be nice for my teacher to teach  2 lessons worth instead of 1" (He doesn't teach at his home, so he has to a make a short trip to the studio).
Which she was non-committal about which I take to mean that she was satisfied that there was no hidden adult agenda, like I'm unhappy with her teacher, which I'm most definitely not.
If she hadn't liked the idea, she would have said so.

[lostinidlewonder]

I think its wonderful that you want to get lessons for your daughter during the holidays absolutely nothing wrong with that.

Some younger kids actually DO NOT work well on their own, you give them x weeks off they will be lazy and muck about almost all the time. If they need to however report in to a teacher every week this keeps them "on the ball" and doesn't give them at opportunity to flounder.

I know from experience setting young students work through the holiday a good half of them don't do it or do it very half heartedly during the holiday break then we need to waste few lessons to get back up to where we where before the break.

I agree that a holiday should be a holiday however, if she is not doing large challenging pieces then it might be a good idea to study new fresh smaller pieces with the holiday teacher, at least she has a break from her other pieces and then can have a new perspective when she tries them again after the break. On the other hand it might be helpful to study her old pieces with the holiday teacher so that she can improve upon it and get a head start so when she resumes lessons after the break she will be more than ready.

As a teacher I find it annoying after holiday breaks to have to repair a lot of work with students who did not have the time to practice, so avoiding this situation will ensure the flow of the normal lessons is not interrupted.

[slane]

I just got the bill for my daughter's first term of lessons and apparently she only does 15min lessons. So much for being a helicopter parent! LOL!
The teacher says she's done "Very well indeed" and I agree. Very happy.

[slane]

So now that my daughter has had two lessons with my teacher I thought I'd report back.

First of all, her teacher didn't prepare anything for her to learn over the break,
I emailed her letting her know what I planned, as a courtesy, and she replied that was no problem at all.
My teacher gives my daughter 30min lessons (compared to 15min) and expects a lot more from her than her teacher does.
Apart from quite a few pieces to learn from a method book, he's given her the flea waltz, to learn from memory, and c major scale, contrary and similar, so that's something new for her. I'm not sure my daughter would survive a whole term with him I think her teacher understands children better .. or maybe I'm weak willed and should expect more from my daughter

I don't sit in the lessons, I sit outside where I can get the gist of what is going on, but not intrude on the specifics which would be very distracting for my daughter.

My daughter is still very good about doing her practice (but in a couple of weeks I'm going to make her increase from 12 to 15 mins which will probably result in much angst) so I think the few lessons she's had over the holidays have been worthwhile. Otherwise she would have been playing her old pieces over and over and ...

[keypeg]

Slane, thank you for filling us in on what has been happening.  The one thing I have not read is your own daughter's reaction. 

[slane]

Her reaction is pretty much business as usual. There are lessons and there is practice.
She likes practising (most days) and she likes showing off to her friends.
But I think she finds the volume of pieces he gives too much. It seems to me that at the end of 30mins she was getting very tired and the last piece he gave her this week didn't really stick in her brain.

[opus613]

First, I must say that I am replying without seeing other answers. The most important factor to consider are the age, level of playing and learning style of your daughter. Without the information, a responsible answer can't be given. If her current teacher is doing a great job, I will certainly discuss it with him/her as well.

[love_that_tune]

"but in a couple of weeks I'm going to make her increase from 12 to 15 mins which will probably result in much angst."  In my opinion you can't force interest and passion for music.  It is the teacher's job to inspire and look for what inspires.  "making" her practice.  My my.  All I can think about is when she will try to quit.  Really the best way to inspire her is to work on your own music and she will pick up the very reason for doing it at all. 

[slane]

I make her go to school too. 6 whole hours a day! And 5 days a week. Isn't that awful?

[maitea]

hahaha Slane But there is a point in what love_that_tune means too..!

I think is necessary that parents support their children-vital. Not just support but encourage. However, above all, she should enjoy playing and cherish her time at the piano, which being as young as she is, it shouldn't just be about "practicing" it should be playing, and having fun! Playing music she likes, singing etc.. If the only image she gets from piano is "hard work", she won't love it.. She also should have a degree of autonomy with her practice and be responsible of her work. Good luck!

[philipjohnston]

Slane - had to laugh at your Crazy Helicopter Parent characterisation...

If you're worried, I've actually put together an article highlighting what genuinely drives teachers nuts, and when perhaps they should be letting a student go:

https://insidemusicteaching.com/core/?p=1103

You might find that you're not so bad when you read what else we have to put up with sometimes

Philip