learning new songs - one hand first?

[jdmz]

How do you learn a new piano song? Practicing one hand at a time, then combining or practice both at the same time off the bat?

[sucom]

This would totally depend on the complexity of the piece and the pianist's skill.  If a piece was in any way challenging, in general, I would practise separate hands first to ensure that I was doing exactly what the music required, in accuracy, fingering, dynamics and expression and then fit the two together.  If a piece has sections that are easy to sight read or consist of technical aspects which have been carefully practised many times before, then first playing separate hands would not be necessary.

What comes to my mind about this is, if playing in an orchestra for example, would you tell the cellists that they don't need to practise their part because it's just an accompaniment?  Of course they should practise accuracy, fingering, dynamics and expression in exactly the same way as any other instrumentalist in the orchestra.  So too with the piano.  Both parts (hands) are important.

[jdmz]

Thanks!

[sroka]

This is actually a really good question.

Makes you wonder what real good pianists do for challenging pieces.

[j_menz]

Some people like to learn the hands seperately; I've never seen the point myself.

[sucom]

Some people like to learn the hands seperately; I've never seen the point myself.

To be honest, I think there is a really strong case for practising separate hands unless you can say, without a shadow of a doubt, hands on heart, that you're left hand could play the treble clef (right hand) notes as equally well as your right hand.  This, alone, would make me practise the left hand with my full attention and care.  Having said this, it also depends on the skill level of the piece being played.  If the left hand notes are easy to play, then I agree, this is certainly so in quite a few pieces if the notes are patterns which you have played many times before.

If this is not the case, then separate hand practise is most definitely helpful and worth the extra effort. 

[j_menz]

To be honest, I think there is a really strong case for practising separate hands unless you can say, without a shadow of a doubt, hands on heart, that you're left hand could play the treble clef (right hand) notes as equally well as your right hand.  This, alone, would make me practise the left hand with my full attention and care.  Having said this, it also depends on the skill level of the piece being played.  If the left hand notes are easy to play, then I agree, this is certainly so in quite a few pieces if the notes are patterns which you have played many times before.

If this is not the case, then separate hand practise is most definitely helpful and worth the extra effort. 

This implies that the "difficult" stuff is in the RH and the left normally gets a free ride. There are no doubt many pieces where this is true, particularly in the intermediate level, but it is not generally true early on or in the advanced repertoire.

I also don't understand why one can't practice the LH (or the RH) with "full attention and care" while still playing the other hand.

[sucom]

This implies that the "difficult" stuff is in the RH and the left normally gets a free ride. There are no doubt many pieces where this is true, particularly in the intermediate level, but it is not generally true early on or in the advanced repertoire.

I also don't understand why one can't practice the LH (or the RH) with "full attention and care" while still playing the other hand.

No, what I'm saying is that many people tend to practise the right hand and, to a certain extent, disregard the left, believing it to be an accompaniment and less important, when in fact, particularly in advanced repertoire, this is not the case at all.  Over the years, it has been impossible to disregard the fact that students have a tendency to practise the right hand, leaving the left hand way behind.  It is a common and consistent problem. 

Regarding 'full attention and care' I would say that it is precisely this point that would cause me to take out any difficult areas of either the right or left hand and practise them both separately AND together.  Much of the time it is fine to practise both hands together; at other times, particularly in tricky areas, the left hand part needs some extra, individual attention.  I have found that giving each hand individual attention allows me to give my best. 

Are you saying that you have NEVER practised your left hand alone?  Ever?  Even in more advanced repertoire?  I did plenty of it while practising Dohnanyi's Rhapsody in C major for a concert.

[j_menz]

Are you saying that you have NEVER practised your left hand alone?  Ever?  Even in more advanced repertoire?  I did plenty of it while practising Dohnanyi's Rhapsody in C major for a concert.

If there is a particularly tricky, unfamiliar technical bit, then yes - I will do just that with whatever hand it is in. That would be reasonably rare and only for short individual figures; never as much as a whole bar. Apart from that, and even for those after they are sorted (but not necessarily perfected), it's hands together always.

I should add that I am aware many people find HS practice useful. I am not against it, I just personally don't get it.

[ajspiano]

I should add that I am aware many people find HS practice useful. I am not against it, I just personally don't get it.

Interestingly, as my brain gets more and more capable of managing different lines of thought simultaneously I find that I am able to manage what I would formally have done HS, HT. In the sense that I am able to give the both hands adequate attention to detail where I previously couldn't, and had to do separate work.

Its not something I'd be willing to tell someone else to do though without a lot of background study..  both in the sense that the said person would have to be capable of the level of thinking, which is pretty intensive.. and at this point in time I have no reason to believe it wouldnt still be more effective for me to just do it HS for a short time rather than HT for perhaps a slightly longer time, on whatever small passage.

[slane]

I do it when:

The music is difficult to read. e.g. Grieg Alfendans, all the left hand and right piled up on one another. I played them through once separately.
When the right and left hand has very different characters. eg. Chopin op28 #6 The right hand is a gentle pulse and the left cantabile and you mustn't let one influence the other. Or even if the left hand is portato and the right legato.
When there is a technical stumbling block in a bar or two.
But generally I learn HT.

[fly4him17]

I'm a newbie to piano but a long-time guitarist and am really interested in the science of good practice techniques.

A rule of thumb I've seen is be sure that you can play each hand separate at about TWICE the song's tempo before trying to put them together. I practice like this and it seems to be logical.

However, I will say that as beginner, I want to discipline myself at reading music for both hands simultaneously, so I try to play hands separate as few times possible so as NOT to just memorize the music. Not all music is worth memorizing.

[nj61]

if I'm figuring out whether I like a piece enough to learn it I'll have a go hands together first, and then separately for the trickier bits if I learn it properly.

Sometimes just for fun I'll bash through some random music, and then I do hands together (badly) for the sight reading practice.

But to learn a piece there's always some hands separately.